Having Statues is not idolatry. http://www.davidmacd.com/catholic/statues_in_church.htm.
I would tell you here is an example of Idolatry. As a Christian working for an organization such as Planned Parenthood for money. Abortion goes against God yet that person works there for money. Seek God first. If that person understood this they would realize they are seeking money (idol that is worshiped today)and not seeking God first. Or a lawyer that is screwing people for money he is committing idolatry. The Golden Calf was a symbol of Idolatry. There are many other forms. Sex can be one as well.
I find it amazing that you a lay person argue with a set of church beliefs that have been held for over 2000 years. You haven’t even address the words of Martin Luther about Mary. Even he was devoted to Mary. You seem to ignore this. Before the reformation in 1500s there were no protestants. EVERYONE was Catholic. There were no books and not many could read so everyone went to church to read the Bible.
The Catholic Church put together the Bible in the first place. Why would they put together the something that disputes their beliefs. When you read the Bible you can’t just read it in plain English. You have to understand the times, the Kingdom of Juda and the way things were explained.
For example does “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God. Matthew 19:24.” Is the eye of the needle a physical needle or perhaps Jesus was referring to a certain gate in Jerusalem called Needle’s Eye, that doorway was built like the eye of a needle and so low that a camel could only pass if it entered kneeling and unencumbered with baggage.
The ‘Bible Alone’ wasn’t even until that time of reformations. But guess what? Still no one had their own Bibles. Books were for rich people. A lot couldn’t read. They still had to go to Church to have it interpreted for them.
29Then the Spirit said to Philip, “Go over to this chariot and join it.” 30So Philip ran up to it and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah. He asked, “Do you understand what you are reading?” 31He replied, “How can I, unless someone guides me?” And he invited Philip to get in and sit beside him. Acts 29-31.
Did you know Luther wanted to throw out the Apocalypse? If he did you protestants would have nothing to talk about. As for protestant beliefs The Rapture belief started lass than 150 years ago. Where is that in the bible?
As for John the Baptist
‘I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.’ “ (Lk 7:28).
John only had original sin. Only Jesus the people in Heaven, and Mary were greater than he.
The phrase “born of woman” means born with original sin otherwise Jesus would fall into that category because He has a human Mother.
How was John the Baptist able to avoid all sin? Sacred Scripture tells us the words of the angel who spoke to Zechariah about his future son (John the Baptist). “ ‘…he will be great before the Lord…and he will be filled with the Holy Spirit, even from his mother’s womb.” (Lk 1:15). John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit even before he was born, when he was a child in his mother Elizabeth’s womb.
When was John the Baptist filled with the Holy Spirit? Sacred Scripture describes the visit of the Virgin Mary to Elizabeth. “And when Elizabeth heard the greeting of Mary, the babe leaped in her womb; and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit….” (Lk 1:41). When Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit, so too was the child within her womb filled with the Holy Spirit. At that time, the child Jesus was in the womb of the Virgin Mary, and John the Baptist was in the womb of Elizabeth. Thus, it was through Jesus, present in the Virgin Mary’s womb, that the Holy Spirit was sent upon Elizabeth and upon John the Baptist.
Go read about the First Fruits. The Bible clearly states these first Christians were free on sin.
Then I looked, and lo, on Mount Zion stood the Lamb, and with him a hundred and forty-four thousand who had his name and his Father’s name written on their foreheads. And I heard a voice from heaven like the sound of many waters and like the sound of loud thunder; the voice I heard was like the sound of harpers playing on their harps, and they sing a new song before the throne and before the four living creatures and before the elders. No one could learn that song except the hundred and forty-four thousand who had been redeemed from the earth. It is these who have not defiled themselves with women, for they are chaste; it is these who follow the Lamb wherever he goes; these have been redeemed from mankind as first fruits for God and the Lamb, and in their mouth no lie was found, for they are spotless.” (Rev 14:1-5).
This is the second time (that I know of) where you've incorrectly stated John the Baptist was without sin his entire life.
Is this some new and fallacious doctrine of your church which perhaps seeks to take some of the heat off of Mary supposedly being sinless, and thus to spread the lies around?
Now we have a sinless Mary and a sinless John the Baptist?
Like Calvin warned, "Every one of us is, even from his mother's womb, a master craftsman of idols." We are all by nature prone to fill our heads with idols.
Some of us, sadly, can't tell the truth of this even when silver and gold are falling from our lips and nostrils.
I find it amazing that you a lay person argue with a set of church beliefs
lol. We are commanded to "receive(d) the word with all readiness of mind, and search(ed) the scriptures daily, whether those things were so" (Acts 17:11).
And so much of the RCC is just not "so."
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." -- John 17:3
We do not disagree that there are many idols, but that does not mean statues can be idols too .
That does not mean that statues and saints are not idols also
Exd 20:4 ¶
Exd 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
God says bowing down or offering honor to saints or statues that belong only to him is a sin.
I find it amazing that you a lay person argue with a set of church beliefs that have been held for over 2000 years. You haven’t even address the words of Martin Luther about Mary. Even he was devoted to Mary. You seem to ignore this. Before the reformation in 1500s there were no protestants. EVERYONE was Catholic. There were no books and not many could read so everyone went to church to read the Bible
Luther did NOT pray to her. You are confusing using her as a substitute for Christ with honor.
From Luthers Theology of Mary
" While holding this belief, Luther will not have Mary’s perpetually virginity extolled. He condemns those who venerate this attribute, and notes that it exists only to bring forth the Messiah:
Now just take a look at the perverse lauders of the mother of God. If you ask them why they hold so strongly to the virginity of Mary, they truly could not say. These stupid idolators do nothing more than to glorify only the mother of God; they extol her for her virginity and practically make a false deity of her. But Scripture does not praise this virginity at all for the sake of the mother; neither was she saved on account of her virginity. Indeed, cursed be this and every other virginity if it exists for its own sake, and accomplishes nothing better than its own profit and praise.
The Spirit extols this virginity, however, because it was needful for the conceiving and bearing of this blessed fruit. Because of the corruption of our flesh, such blessed fruit could not come, except through a virgin. Thus this tender virginity existed in the service of others to the glory of God, not to its own glory.[Luthers Works 54:340]
Even in Luther’s acceptance of perpetual virginity, it was not to be worshipped as the attribute of a goddess. Luther points out that Mary fades from the biblical account after the birth, because the emphasis of the Scriptures are on her child: “For the prophet and the evangelist, and St. Paul as well, do not treat of this virgin beyond the point where they have from her that fruit for whose sake she is a virgin and everything else. After the child is born they dismiss the mother and speak not about her, what became of her, but only about her offspring.”[ibid] That Luther did not spend entire treatises defending perpetual virginity serves to show that what was important to him was not Mary’s lack of children, but rather the child she did give birth to. Throughout his career, he would minimize the emphasis on this Marian doctrine."
The Catholic Church put together the Bible in the first place. Why would they put together the something that disputes their beliefs. When you read the Bible you can’t just read it in plain English. You have to understand the times, the Kingdom of Juda and the way things were explained.
God entrusted the care of the NT to the church, but it is Gods work not the churches.
The ‘Bible Alone’ wasn’t even until that time of reformations. But guess what? Still no one had their own Bibles. Books were for rich people. A lot couldn’t read. They still had to go to Church to have it interpreted for them.
The Church Fathers believed in Sola Scriptura:
"They[heretics] gather their views from other sources than the Scriptures...We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the Gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith"
- Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 3.1.1
Sola Scriptura !
"I beg of you, my dear brother to live among these books [scripture], to meditate upon them,to know nothing else, to seek nothing else."
- Jerome (Letter 53:10)
Sola Scriptura !
"There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of whom we gain from the Holy Scriptures, and from no other source. For just as a man, if he wishes to be skilled in the wisdom of this world, will find himself unable to get at it in any other way than by mastering the dogmas of philosophers, so all of us who wish to practice piety will be unable to learn its practice from any other quarter than the oracles of God. Whatever things, then, the Holy Scripture declare, at these let us look; and whatsoever things they teach, these let us learn; and [u]as the Father wills our belief to be, let us believe[/u][/b]; and as He wills the Son to be glorified, let us glorify Him; and as He wills the Holy Spirit to be bestowed, let us receive Him. Not according to our own will, nor according to our own mind, nor yet as using violently those things which are given by God,but even as He has chosen to teach them by the Holy Scriptures, so let us discern them." [
- Hippolytus, Against Noetus, ch 9
Sola Scriptura !
"For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?"
- Ambrose (On the Duties of the Clergy, 1:23:102)
Sola Scriptura !
"We use Scripture to answer heresy and preceive that it is power and truth."
- Basil the Great
Sola Scriptura !
“Let the inspired Scriptures then[ be our umpire, and the vote of truth will be given to those whose dogmas are found to agree with the Divine words.”
- Gregory of Nyssa (d.ca, 395) “On the Holy Trinity”, NPNF, p. 327
Sola Scriptura
“We are not content simply because this is the tradition of the Fathers. [What is important is that the Fathers followed the meaning of the Scripture.”
- Basil the Great (ca.329–379) On the Holy Spirit, 7.16
Sola Scriptura !
“Neither dare one agree with catholic bishops if by chance they err in anything, but the result that their opinion is against the canonical Scriptures of God.”
- Augustine (354–430) De unitate ecclesiae, 10
Sola Scriptura !
“For our faith rests on the revelation made to the Prophets and Apostles who wrote the canonical books.”
- Thomas Aquinas (1225–1274) Summa Theologiae, Question 1, Art. 8
Sola Scriptura!
"For among the things that are plainly laid down in Scripture .are to be foundALL matters that concern faith and the manner of life,--to wit, hope and love, of which I have spoken in the previous book. After this, when we have made ourselves to a certain extent familiar with the language of Scripture, we may proceed to open up and investigate the obscure passages, and in doing so draw examples from the plainer expressions to throw light upon the more obscure, and use the evidence of passages about which there is no doubt to remove all hesitation in regard to the doubtful passages."
- Augustine (On Christian Doctrine, 2:9)
Sola Scriptura !
Only the scriptures contain the teaching of the apostles and they speak to us through , and that voice is louder and more perfect than any man made tradition !
‘I tell you, among those born of women none is greater than John; yet he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.’ “ (Lk 7:28).
John only had original sin. Only Jesus the people in Heaven, and Mary were greater than he.
PROVE OIT FROM THE WORD OF GOD AND FROM THE CATHOLIC CATECHISM ...I DARE YA :)
That is a teaching of men and has NO scriptural foundation.
You have twisted the word of God to fit your own personal doctrine.
The phrase “born of woman” means born with original sin otherwise Jesus would fall into that category because He has a human Mother.
SIN IS PASSED BY THE FATHER NOT HE MOTHER...DO YOU KNOW ANY THEOLOGY?