Posted on 10/25/2007 9:24:05 AM PDT by NYer
The Other Christ: Padre Pio and 19th Century Italy, by the historian Sergio Luzzatto, draws on a document found in the Vatican's archive.
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The document reveals the testimony of a pharmacist who said that the young Padre Pio bought four grams of carbolic acid in 1919.
"I was an admirer of Padre Pio and I met him for the first time on 31 July 1919," wrote Maria De Vito.
She claimed to have spent a month with the priest in the southern town of San Giovanni Rotondo, seeing him often.
"Padre Pio called me to him in complete secrecy and telling me not to tell his fellow brothers, he gave me personally an empty bottle, and asked if I would act as a chauffeur to transport it back from Foggia to San Giovanni Rotondo with four grams of pure carbolic acid.
"He explained that the acid was for disinfecting syringes for injections. He also asked for other things, such as Valda pastilles."
The testimony was originally presented to the Vatican by the Archbishop of Manfredonia, Pasquale Gagliardi, as proof that Padre Pio caused his own stigmata with acid.
It was examined by the Holy See during the beatification process of Padre Pio and apparently dismissed.
Padre Pio, whose real name was Francesco Forgione, died in 1968. He was made a saint in 2002. A recent survey in Italy showed that more people prayed to him than to Jesus or the Virgin Mary. He exhibited stigmata throughout his life, starting in 1911.
The new allegations were greeted with an instant dismissal from his supporters. The Catholic Anti-Defamation League said Mr Luzzatto was a liar and was "spreading anti-Catholic libels".
Pietro Siffi, the president of the League, said: "We would like to remind Mr Luzzatto that according to Catholic doctrine, canonisation carries with it papal infallibility.
"We would like to suggest to Mr Luzzatto that he dedicates his energies to studying religion properly."
Mary was blessed by God to give human birth to Jesus Christ. Blessed. One syllable. Not two. She was blessed by God, as all Christians are blessed who have been given faith in His Son.
Mary was not the ark. Mary was sweet, but that doesn't make her a fruitcake.
“...that doesn’t make her a fruitcake”
Not so great, dear Dr. E.
Sola Scriptura doesn’t tell us anywhere that “she is sweet”, and I don’t think anybody wants to consider her a fruitcake.
Mary was the first Christ-bearer. Of this there should be no dispute. Hopefully, she is rightfully considered the first of many Christ-bearers.
Jesus the Lord told the parable of the virgins keeping their lamps lit. As you surely already know, He was making reference to the Hebrew custom of the wedding walk. Because the groom was always the prominent figure in the Hebrew concept of the marriage ritual, on the wedding day, the groom would set out from his house to take the walk to the house of his bride-to-be. Those who wished to be included in the festivities would light their lanterns and follow in procession behind the groom to the bride’s house. Of course this is all the typology,( allegory, symbolism) of Christ coming to gather His church for the great day of the Wedding Feast. Someone was surely the first in line behind the groom as he began his wedding walk to his bride’s house.
I see Mary, the first Christ-bearer, as that first person behind Our Lord in the wedding party, her lantern being visible to those who follow.
I send my regards and am respectfully,
ROE
God is not dead.
Neither is a deceased Christian. “I am the resurrection and the life; though a man die, yet shall he live; and whoever lives and believes in me shall never died.”
And, I can pray for anything
I don't think so either.
Neither is a deceased Christian.
Did the deceased Christians body stop functioning?
The Catholic Church thinks that sex is very holy when it is sacramental. That is why there is a Sacrament of Matriomony.
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_____________________________________________________________
Perhaps you are not familiar with Pope John Paul II's book on the Theology of the Body. It speaks about the sacredness of the sexual act, the sacredness of the marital union, etc.
For your information:
Christopher West's Theology of the Body Webiste
Books, tapes, CDs, DVDs, etc.
From book by the same name by Pope John Paul II.
The Trinity is throughout the bible .
People lit incense to the ark, blood was poured on the ark and bowed before it. That has NOTHING TO DO WITH MARY and everything to do with Christ
Really read the post I gave you showing the parallels to Christ.
If I were to ask you where the role of priest was to be a part of the new church or where Christ told the apostles where would I find them?
Where did Jesus tell us to pray to his mother to be saved? There were many errors and alot of false teachings in the early church.
The fact some one said that 1800 years after Christ does not mean it is true
Spiritual things are only understood by those that have the indwelling spirit. To the unsaved they are foolishness.
When looking at scripture you have to look at it in context and in light of other scriptures .This study was done by an internet friend see how she looks to Gods word to set her study
Interesting verse concerning the ARK of the Covenant: Jeremiah 4: 16 In those days, when your numbers have increased greatly in the land," declares the LORD, "men will no longer say, `The ark of the covenant of the LORD.' It will never enter their minds or be remembered; it will not be missed, nor will another one be made. 17 At that time they will call Jerusalem The Throne of the LORD, and all nations will gather in Jerusalem to honor the name of the LORD. No longer will they follow the stubbornness of their evil hearts.
It is about Jerusalem in pointing to the Throne of God where our Lord Jesus would walk in the Temple......
15:25 Take the ark of God back into the city. David reveals a true understanding of the connection between the ark and God's presence with his people. He knows that possession of the ark does not guarantee God's blessing (see notes on 1Sa 4:3,21). He also recognizes that the ark belongs in the capital city as a symbol of the Lord's rule over the nation (see note on 6:2), no matter who the king might be.
6:2 Baalah of Judah. see also Jos 15:60; 18:14; 1Sa 7:1. ark of God. See Ex 25:10-22; see also notes on 1Sa 4:3-4,21. The ark had remained at Kiriath Jearim during the reign of Saul. called by the Name. Used elsewhere to designate ownership (see 12:28; Dt 28:10; Isa 4:1; 63:19). LORD Almighty. See 1Sa 1:3. enthroned between cherubim. See 1Sa 4:4; see also 1Ch 28:2 ("footstool of our God"). David recognized the great significance of the ark as the earthly throne of Israel's God. As a true theocratic king, he wished to acknowledge the Lord's kingship and rule over both himself and the people by restoring the ark to a place of prominence in the nation.
6:7 his irreverent act. Although Uzzah's intent may have been good, he violated the clear instructions the Lord had given for handling the ark (see note on v. 3; cf. Ex 25:15; Nu 4:5-6,15; 1Ch 15:13-15; 1Sa 6:19). At this important new beginning in Israel's life with the Lord, the Lord gives a shocking and vivid reminder to David and Israel that those who claim to serve him must acknowledge his rule with absolute seriousness (see Lev 10:1-3; Jos 7:24-25; 24:19-20; Ac 5:1-1 1).
11:19 ark of his covenant. The OT ark was a chest of acacia wood (Dt 10:1-2). It symbolized the throne or presence of God among his people. It was probably destroyed when Nebuzaradan destroyed the temple in Jerusalem (2Ki 25:8-10). In the NT it symbolizes God's faithfulness in keeping covenant with his people. lightning . . . hailstorm.
We have numerous responses in the thread about Mary being a "type" of the Ark, etc. and yet we have the word of God telling us that it will not be remembered, or missed....and the Throne of the Lord is to be Jerusalem......The ARK symbolized the presence of God among His people....The presence of God is God the Son and Holy Spirit, not a person Mary......
More on the verses concerning the sign of a woman in Rev. It is not about Mary but an entire nation of Messianic believers.........
The woman is a sign, not a person and the meaning revealed to us in the Old testament....According to Joseph, the Sun, Moon and 12 stars are bowing down to Joseph? We study the OT to understand the symbols in the NT. Those that John wrote to, would have known that he was referring to the dream of Joseph.....Again, the sign and pregnancy are in heaven....
12 1 A great and wondrous sign appeared in heaven: a woman clothed with the sun, with the moon under her feet and a crown of twelve stars on her head. 2 She was pregnant and cried out in pain as she was about to give birth.
Joseph's dream in the OT,
Genesis 37: 8 His brothers said to him, "Do you intend to reign over us? Will you actually rule us?" And they hated him all the more because of his dream and what he had said.
9Then he had another dream, and he told it to his brothers. "Listen," he said, "I had another dream, and this time the sun and moon and eleven stars were bowing down to me." 10When he told his father as well as his brothers, his father rebuked him and said, "What is this dream you had? Will your mother and I and your brothers actually come and bow down to the ground before you?" 11 His brothers were jealous of him, but his father kept the matter in mind.
37:10 your mother. Jacob possibly refers to Leah, since Rachel has already died (see 35:19). bow down . . . before you. An unsettling echo of a hope expressed earlier to Jacob by his father Isaac (see 27:29).
ISRAEL Used in Scripture to designate: (1) an individual man, the son of Isaac (see JACOB); or (2) his descendants, the twelve tribes of the Hebrews; or (3) the ten northern tribes, led by the tribe of Ephraim, as opposed to the southern, under the tribe of Judah.
Genesis 27: 29 May nations serve you and peoples bow down to you. Be lord over your brothers, and may the sons of your mother bow down to you. May those who curse you be cursed and those who bless you be blessed."
The Birth referring to a nation and Zion...The references are so much more then just a reference to a single woman Mary. Again the references to birth symbols given in Isaiah concerning the nation.....
Isaiah 66: 7 "Before she goes into labor, she gives birth; before the pains come upon her, she delivers a son. 8 Who has ever heard of such a thing? Who has ever seen such things? Can a country be born in a day or a nation be brought forth in a moment? Yet no sooner is Zion in labor than she gives birth to her children. 10 Writhe in agony, O Daughter of Zion, like a woman in labor, for now you must leave the city to camp in the open field. You will go to Babylon; there you will be rescued. There the LORD will redeem you out of the hand of your enemies.
12:1 sign. An extraordinary spectacle or event that points beyond itself (cf. Lk 21:11,25; Ac 2:19). a woman clothed with the sun. Probably a symbolic reference to the believing Messianic community (see v. 5). twelve stars. Cf. the 12 tribes of Israel.
12:2 cried out in pain. Cf. the similar language describing the rebirth of Jerusalem in Isa 66:7 (see Mic 4:10).
12:3 red dragon. Identified in v. 9 (cf. 20:2). Dragons abound in the mythology of ancient peoples (Leviathan in Canaanite lore and Set-Typhon, the red crocodile, in Egypt). In the OT they are normally used metaphorically to depict the enemies of God and of Israel (see Ps 74:14; Isa 27:1; Eze 29:3). seven heads. Symbolizing universal wisdom (cf. 13:1). ten horns. Symbolizing great power.
12:5 a son, a male child. The Messiah. iron scepter. See note on 2:27. snatched up to God. The ascension of Christ.
12:6 desert. Not a wasteland but a place of spiritual refuge (cf. Hos 2:14). 1,260 days. The time of spiritual protection corresponds to the time of persecution (see note on 11:2; cf. 13:5).
12:7 Michael. An archangel who defeats Satan in heavenly warfare. In Da 12:1 he is the protector of Israel who will deliver her from tribulation in the last days.
12:9 dragon was hurled . . . to the earth. Not the original casting of Satan out of heaven, but his final exclusion--an explanation of his intense hostility against God's people in the last days (vv. 12-17). devil, or Satan. See notes on 2:9-10. leads . . . astray. Cf. 2Co 11:3; see also Lk 22:31; Jn 13:2.
12:10 accuser. See Job 1:9-11; Zec 3:1. Satan in Hebrew means "accuser."
12:12 his time is short. The period of final, intense hostility of Satan toward the people of God.
12:13-16 Cf. the similarity to the exodus. 12:14 desert. See note on v. 6. a time, times and half a time. One year plus two years plus half a year (see note on 11:2).
12:16 earth helped . . . by opening its mouth. In Nu 16:30-33 the earth opened and swallowed Korah's men.
12:17 rest of her offspring. Believers in general as contrasted with Christ, the male child of vv. 5,13. testimony of Jesus. The testimony that Jesus bore (cf. 1:2,9; 19:10).
The events occuring in this section of Rev. have nothing to do with Mary but the nation of Isreal.....
ears_to_hear: quit FReepmailing me. If you’d like to make rude remarks, make them where everyone can see them.
So then you tell me why Mary has to be a virgin ALL of her life and why Priests could not have sex the night before they said mass?
One an say anything, but one must look at the actions.
Why MUST Mary remain a perpetual virgin?
No offense intended but that could be considered similar to asking someone to use a Ouiji Board for 6 weeks to see if you receive an answer. What kind of answer do you expect or what is the end result?
My thought was similar Harley. God has already told me everything I need to know about His mother and what my relationship with her and with HIM are to be in the scriptures. Why would I look for assurance that what they word of God says is not true? Who would tell me that ? God?
Only if He can lie? Can God lie?
Isaiah 42:8 I am Jehovah, that is My name; And My glory I will not give to another, Nor My praise to carved images.
Isaiah 48:11 For My own sake, for My own sake, I will do it; For how should My name be profaned? And I will not give My glory to another.
Just as Samson was granted great strength. Or when God worked through Moses to part the Red Sea. Or as Jesus gave the apostles the power to forgive sin. God holds Mary in a special place prepared for her in His Kingdom.
Do you have Statues of Samson or Moses in your church? No where does it say in scripture PROPERLY READ that Mary has a SPECIAL PLACE in fact scripture indicates that Christ holds all the elect in the SAME affection in which he holds his mother
Mat 12:48 But he answered and said unto him that told him, Who is my mother? and who are my brethren?
Mat 12:49 And he stretched forth his hand toward his disciples, and said, Behold my mother and my brethren!
Mat 12:50 For whosoever shall do the will of my Father which is in heaven, the same is my brother, and sister, and mother.
So I, and ever one of the elect ,are as loved of Christ as Mary
Here’s a new one for you. Did you know John the Baptist never committed a sin in his entire life?
Ahh another doctrine of man?
Your church does not agree with you.
578 Jesus, Israel's Messiah and therefore the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, was to fulfill the Lawby keeping it in its all embracing detail - according to his own words, down to "the least of these commandments".330 He is in fact the only one who could keep it perfectly.331 On their own admission the Jews were never able to observe the Law in its entirety without violating the least of its precepts.332 This is why every year on the Day of Atonement the children of Israel ask God's forgiveness for their transgressions of the Law. The Law indeed makes up one inseparable whole, and St. James recalls, "Whoever keeps the whole law but fails in one point has become guilty of all of it.
So again , the ONLY one that COULD KEEP THE LAW PERFECTLY ( never sin) was God HIMSELF as Christ.
John was prophesied in the OT, He was a holy man that Christ recognized as the greatest man born of woman.. BUT no where does scripture say he never sinned..
So WHY is it NECESSARY for Mary to remain a perpetual virgin ? If marriage and sex are holy, why can Mary only be loved and honored if she never had sex?
I am fine with that
After you said that you wanted to stay off open threads and "stick to the caucus ( I figured you thought we were rude or harsh) I sent you the following freep mail
You know Judith, if you are sure what you believe is true you should not be threatened by debate on it.
Just a thought :)
ETH
After your rude reply I responded with this
How loving a reply... and your problem with the debate forums is they what? They are not loving,...honey you fit right in
Judith I a,m a pretty up front person and I have no problem telling people what I think.
Luke 1:26-56
Have you every heard of the typology between the Old Ark of the Covenant and the New Ark of the Covenant, Mary? Check it out!
Whether or not they have expressed an interest in hearing it, evidently. And if I state I'm off the open threads, you take that as an invitation to FReepmail me, stating that I must be afraid of debate?
I realize that such an attitude is near-hopeless to correct, nevertheless, St. Jude, patron of nearly-hopeless cases, can no doubt be of assistance. I shall bless you with a novena in your honor.
Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.
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