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The Battle of Gog and Magog: Prophetic Deja Vu
American Vision ^ | 10/23/2007 | Gary DeMar

Posted on 10/24/2007 8:18:14 AM PDT by topcat54

An article is circulating around the Internet that carries the title “Israel Warns World War III May be Biblical War of Gog and Magog.” It is written by Ezra HaLevi and was published in Israel National News.1 The article begins with the following prophetic claims, not unlike so many evangelical and fundamentalist end-time assurances about the end:

US President George W. Bush said a nuclear Iran would mean World War III. Israeli newscasts featured Gog & Magog maps of the likely alignment of nations in that potential conflict. Channel 2 and Channel 10 TV showed the world map, sketching the basic alignment of the two opposing axes in a coming world war, in a manner evoking associations of the Gog and Magog prophecy for many viewers. The prophecy of Gog and Magog refers to a great world war centered on the Holy Land and Jerusalem and first appears in the book of Yechezkel (Ezekiel). On one side were Israel, the United States, Britain, France and Germany. On the other were Iran, Russia, China, Syria and North Korea.

M. R. DeHaan, writing in 1951, identified “the sign of Gog and Magog” to be one of the “three most outstanding signs of the coming of Christ.”2 In 1972, Carl Johnson wrote Prophecy Made Plain for Times Like These.3 His chapter on “When Russia Invades the Middle East” includes a lengthy quotation from a message Jack Van Impe gave at Canton Baptist Temple in Canton, Ohio, sometime in 1969. Like so many who claim to know what’s on the prophetic horizon, Van Impe made his case for an imminent war with Russia on what the newspapers of 1969 were reporting. This war was so close, he charged, “that the stage is being set for what could explode into World War III at any moment.”4 In 1971, Ronald Reagan, then governor of California, followed a similar prophetic script:

Ezekiel tells us that Gog, the nation that will lead all of the other powers of darkness against Israel, will come out of the north. Biblical scholars have been saying for generations that Gog must be Russia. What other powerful nation is to the north of Israel? None. But it didn’t seem to make sense before the Russian revolution, when Russia was a Christian country. Now it does, now that Russia has become Cummunistic and atheistic, now that Russia has set itself against God. Now it fits the description of Gog perfectly.5

This familiar interpretation of Ezekiel 38 and 39 has been written about, talked about, and repeated so often that it has become an unquestioned tenet of prophetic orthodoxy. The question is, does the Bible teach it?

Ezekiel 38 and 39 has been interpreted in various ways over the centuries. The most popular view is to see the prophecy as a depiction of a future battle that includes an alliance of nations led by modern-day Russia in an attack on Israel. Chuck Missler writes in his book Prophecy 20/20 that “the apparent use of nuclear weapons has made this passage [Ezekiel 38 and 39] appear remarkably timely, and some suspect that it may be on our horizon.”6 Prophecy writers for nearly 2000 years have made similar claims, of course without the reference to “nuclear weapons.” In the fourth and fifth centuries, Gog was thought to refer to the Goths and Moors. In the seventh century, it was the Huns. By the eighth century, the Islamic empire was making a name for itself, so it was a logical candidate. By the tenth century, the Hungarians briefly replaced Islam. But by the sixteenth century, the Turks and Saracens seemed to fit the Gog and Magog profile with the Papacy thrown in for added prophetic juice. In the seventeenth century, Spain and Rome were the end-time bad guys.7 In the nineteenth century, Napoleon was Gog leading the forces of Magog-France.8 For most of the twentieth century, Communist Russia was the logical pick with its military aspirations, its atheistic founding, and its designation of being “far north” of Israel. In a word, identifying Gog and Magog with a specific nation or group of nations in the past is legion.9

As the above brief study shows, when the headlines change, the interpretation of the Bible changes. The failed interpretive history of Ezekiel 38 and 39 is prime evidence that modern-day prophecy writers are not “profiling the future through the lens of Scripture” but through the ever-changing headlines of the evening news.10

A lot has to be read into the Bible in order to make Ezekiel 38 and 39 fit modern-day military realities that include jet planes, “missiles,” and “atomic and explosive” weaponry. Those who claim to interpret the Bible literally have a problem on their hands.

The battle in Ezekiel 38 and 39 is clearly an ancient one or at least one fought with ancient weapons. All the soldiers are riding horses (38:4, 15; 39:20). These horse soldiers are “wielding swords” (38:4), carrying “bows and arrows, war clubs and spears” (39:3, 9). The weapons are made of wood (39:10), and it is these abandoned weapons that serve as fuel for “seven years” (39:9). Tim LaHaye describes a highly technological future when the antichrist rises to power to rule the world. “A wave of technological innovation is sweeping the planet. . . . The future wave has already begun. We cannot stop it. . . . [T]he Antichrist will use some of this technology to control the world.”11 How does this assessment of the near prophetic future square with a supposed tribulation period when Israelites “take wood from the field” and “gather firewood from the forests”? (39:10). There is nothing in the context that would lead the reader to conclude that horses, war clubs, swords, bows and arrows, and spears mean anything other than horses, war clubs, swords, bows and arrows, and spears. And what is the Russian air force after? Gold, silver, cattle, and goods (38:12­–13). In what modern war can anyone remember armies going after cattle? How much cattle does Israel have? Certainly not enough to feed the Russians! The latest claim is that Israel will discover oil, and this is what will attract the nations to Israel. Where in the Bible do we find this claim?12

Chuck Missler attempts to get around the description of ancient war implements by claiming that the various Hebrew words “is simply 2,500-year-old language that could be describing a mechanized force.”13 The word translated “horse,” “actually means leaper” that “can also mean bird, or even chariot-rider.” He tells us that the Hebrew word translated “sword” “has become a generic term for any weapon or destroying instrument.” In a similar way, “arrow” means “piercer” and “is occasionally used for thunderbolt” and could be “translated today as a missile.” We are to believe that “‘Bow’ is what launches the [missile].”14 Is Missler trying to tell us that when Ezekiel wrote “bow” and “arrow” he really meant a launching pad for a missile? To follow his interpretive methodology requires us to believe that the meaning of the Bible has been inaccessible to the people of God for nearly 2500 years. Missler, like nearly all end-time prognosticators, breaks all the rules of exegesis.


1. Israeli National News

2. M. R. DeHaan, Signs of the Times and other Prophetic Messages (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 1951), 74.

3. Carl G. Johnson, Prophecy Made Plain for Times Like These (Chicago: Moody Press, 1972).

4. Jack Van Impe, The Coming War With Russia (Old Time Gospel Hour Press, n.d.). The quotation is taken from a message that Van Impe gave at Canton Baptist Temple, Canton, Ohio. The talk was recorded and available on a as an LP. Quoted in Johnson, Prophecy Made Plain for Times Like These, 82–83.

5. From an address that Ronald Reagan gave at a dinner with California legislators in 1971. Quoted in Paul Boyer, When Time Shall Be No More: Prophecy Belief in Modern Culture (Cambridge, MA: The Belknap Press of Harvard University, 1992), 162.

6. Chuck Missler, Prophecy 20/20: Profiling the Future Through the Lens of Scripture (Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson, 2006), 155.

7. Francis X. Gumerlock, The Day and the Hour: Christianity’s Perennial Fascination with Predicting the End of the World (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 2000), 68.

8. T.R., “Commentary on Ezekiel’s Prophecy of Gog and Magog,” The Gentleman’s Magazine (October 1816), 307.

9. Wikipedia

10. Gary DeMar, Islam and Russia in Prophecy: The Problem of Interpreting the Bible Through the Lens of History (Powder Springs, GA: American Vision, 2005).

11. Tim LaHaye, “The Coming Wave,” in Ed Hindson and Lee Fredrickson, Future Wave: End Times, Prophecy, and the Technological Explosion (Eugene, OR: Harvest House Publishers, 2001), 7–8.

12. This claim will be discussed in a later chapter.

13. Missler, Prophecy 20/20, 165.

14. Missler, Prophecy 20/20, 165.


Gary DeMar is the President for American Vision
Permission to reprint granted by American Vision P.O. Box 220, Powder Springs, GA 30127, 800-628-9460.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: dispensationalism; endtimes; iran; israel; prophecy
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To: topcat54
Sadly, the entire basis for the Reformation seems to be lost on many modern Christians -- many of whom would otherwise identify with the Reformation -- who chase after every fad and -ism that suits them.

Sadly. The only mention of it at our church this last Lord's Day came from my lips. And speaking of fads, meanwhile our pastor(s) want to do Alpha course.

701 posted on 10/31/2007 1:03:16 PM PDT by Lee N. Field ("Dispensationalism -- threat or menace?")
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To: Quix

***However . . .

The folks on your side have

PERSISTENTLY, REDUNDANTLY, FIERCELY, STRIDENTLY . . . often enough haughtily etc.

INSISTED

that Blood descendents of ABRAHAM, ISAAC AND JACOB

are no longer of any significant, special or other kind of unique....***

Why, Quix, you are right. I don’t read super classes of humans or any other kind or racial nonsense. No one race is superior to another. Did we not all learn a valuable lesson about judging people according to the color of their blood? Would the world not be a better place without such racial nonsense.


702 posted on 10/31/2007 1:08:12 PM PDT by Lord_Calvinus
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To: topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg; Uncle Chip; JohnnyM; Freedom'sWorthIt; Quix
me: Jesus revealed Himself differently for Paul v. Peter v. Thomas v. John.

you: Unless you can quantify the word "differently" from Scripture I’m afraid I’ll have to disagree since it has no basis in God’s objective revelation.

Paul was stopped in his tracks on the way to Damascus and received the revelation of Jesus Christ directly, going into seclusion for 3 years before he met with the apostles and even then he only met with Peter for a few days and James for even less.

But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught [it], but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it: And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called [me] by his grace, To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood: Neither went I up to Jerusalem to them which were apostles before me; but I went into Arabia, and returned again unto Damascus.

Then after three years I went up to Jerusalem to see Peter, and abode with him fifteen days. But other of the apostles saw I none, save James the Lord's brother. – Galatians 1:11-19

Peter was specially chosen as the first to receive the revelation from God the Father that Jesus Christ is Lord. He was first called – like Abraham was first called. And both are called “rock” in Scripture. In the Song of Moses, the Name of God is revealed as “The Rock” – and again in the New Testament, Christ is named “Rock.”

And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. – Matt 16:17-18

Hearken to me, ye that follow after righteousness, ye that seek the LORD: look unto the rock [whence] ye are hewn, and to the hole of the pit [whence] ye are digged. Look unto Abraham your father, and unto Sarah [that] bare you: for I called him alone, and blessed him, and increased him. – Isaiah 51:1-2

Give ear, O ye heavens, and I will speak; and hear, O earth, the words of my mouth. My doctrine shall drop as the rain, my speech shall distil as the dew, as the small rain upon the tender herb, and as the showers upon the grass: Because I will publish the name of the LORD: ascribe ye greatness unto our God. [He is] the Rock, his work [is] perfect: for all his ways [are] judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right [is] he. – Deu 32:1-4

Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ. – 1 Cor 10:1-4

Doubting Thomas would not believe that Christ had resurrected until he could press his hands into His side and feel the holes in His hands. Christ revealed Himself precisely that way to Thomas so that he could believe.

But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came. The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.

And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: [then] came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace [be] unto you. Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.

And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. – John 20:24-28

John had a unique revelation of Jesus Christ born of their great love for one another. His Gospel reveals Jesus Christ as God, the One by Whom everything that was made was made and for whom all that there is “is.”

When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son! Then saith he to the disciple, Behold thy mother! And from that hour that disciple took her unto his own [home].– John 19:26-27

Then Peter, turning about, seeth the disciple whom Jesus loved following; which also leaned on his breast at supper, and said, Lord, which is he that betrayeth thee? Peter seeing him saith to Jesus, Lord, and what [shall] this man [do]? Jesus saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what [is that] to thee? follow thou me. – John 21:20-22

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. - John 1:1-3

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name: Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. – John 1:12-13

Jesus revealed Himself differently to each of them. And their testimony is part of Scripture, God's written revelation to us.

In that regard, God's revelation (e.g. in Scripture) is holographic. Each aspect is true and therefore consistent and unified, but no aspect is a full revelation. Again, we creatures couldn't contain the full revelation of God the Creator.

As with a holographic, one aspect being "right" doesn't mean that another aspect is ipso facto "wrong."

Jesus is the same, yesterday today and tomorrow. But we are individuals and He guides us that way, individually.

To God be the glory!

703 posted on 10/31/2007 1:08:51 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: 1000 silverlings; Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg
While I agree that there is no private interpretation of scripture and that revelation is to be given to the body as a whole, I no longer believe that AG holds gnostic beliefs.

Perhaps just an overly-zealous Pentecostal type? I’m not sure how you relate fellowship-wise with someone who claims God purposely gives different information to different people.

"These are the leanings I have received in the Spirit. That yours are somewhat different is moot. His will for us is not necessarily the same." (AG)

Confusing language.

704 posted on 10/31/2007 1:09:28 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: 1000 silverlings
Thank you oh so very much for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!

Perhaps her love of the Lord and her personal relationship with Him just gets more airtime around here from her.

Those of us who love the Lord just cannot seem to contain ourselves. LOLOL!

705 posted on 10/31/2007 1:13:11 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Quix
LOLOL! Thank you for your encouragements, dear brother in Christ!
706 posted on 10/31/2007 1:13:50 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl
God does give different information to different people. One simple way to know are these incessant threads repeating the same foolishness over and over.

It's obvious that people have various levels of understanding, from the simple and childish to learned theologian. God rewards those who diligently seek Him.

707 posted on 10/31/2007 1:14:33 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Alamo-Girl; Dr. Eckleburg; Uncle Chip; JohnnyM; Freedom'sWorthIt
me: Jesus revealed Himself differently for Paul v. Peter v. Thomas v. John.

Paul was stopped in his tracks on the way to Damascus and received the revelation of Jesus Christ directly, …

Peter was specially chosen as the first to receive the revelation from God the Father that Jesus Christ is Lord. …

Doubting Thomas would not believe that Christ had resurrected until he could press his hands …

So by "differently" it take it you mean in different fashion, not necessarily different information about Himself. In fact Paul argued before the rest of the apostles when he was trying to gain entry with them that He had received the same information and was preaching the same gospel about the same Jesus. His message was no different than the message of Peter or Thomas. His experience was different and his calling was different, but that was not an excuse for not trying to be in harmony with his brother apostles on matter of interpretation and doctrine. There was complete harmony there. I don’t hear Paul using the excuse of "These are the leanings I have received in the Spirit. That yours are somewhat different is moot" with his brethren.

708 posted on 10/31/2007 1:17:19 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: 1000 silverlings
Well and truly said, dear brother in Christ!
709 posted on 10/31/2007 1:17:36 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Lord_Calvinus
***”And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you: Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.”*** Interesting Amill/ Preterist verse you cite here. Note that this verse doesn’t say restoration of Israel, but the restoration of ALL THINGS. So, for what Biblical reason, other than you need to read your Eschatology into the passage, does all things mean only Israel, one thing.

Hmmmmm. You cannot restore [restitute] something that wasn't in existence before, can you??? So then whatever these ALL THINGS are they must have been in existence previously, right??? Would ALL THINGS include the Kingdom of Israel which was in existence before this??? Would the Kingdom of Israel that the prophets said would be restored be included in ALL THINGS???

You do pray the Lord's Prayer, don't you: "Our Father Who art in Heaven Hallowed be Thy Name, Thy Kingdom Come...." Perhaps you should think about it the next time you pray it. You are asking the Father to send the Kingdom, which is still in heaven where the King is.

710 posted on 10/31/2007 1:17:56 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl
God does give different information to different people. One simple way to know are these incessant threads repeating the same foolishness over and over.

Curious. Is that a joke, or do you really believe that, for example, God is teaching dispensationalism to dispensationalists and the opposite to Reformed people?

711 posted on 10/31/2007 1:19:58 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Friends don't let friends listen to dispensationalists.")
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To: topcat54; 1000 silverlings; Dr. Eckleburg; Uncle Chip; JohnnyM; Freedom'sWorthIt; Quix
God is like a master artist - His Creation a living canvas. He doesn't mix all the colors into one on His palette. If He did, what could the masterpiece "say?"

As long as we are speaking the same Spiritual language, we communicate and have fellowship with one another:

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God. Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. II Cor 2:6-16

The natural man cannot receive what we have to say.

Maranatha, Jesus!

BTW, thank you for calling me "overly-zealous!" I am not however, Pentecostal.

712 posted on 10/31/2007 1:25:01 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg; Alamo-Girl
No it's not a joke. We are to grow in the Word, and there is only one way to do that, by reading and studying it. Plus the HS must reveal it to one studying. Levels of understanding and not different understandings. There is only one Truth. You don't get it by osmosis either.

Some people here that read Revelation think Jesus is going to appear as a half-god half ram. In a previous post I said one must understand the meaning of flocks in the bible, and the symbolic significance of oxen, donkeys and sheep. I understand something that they apparently do not. Now where did I get this understanding? I got it from reading the bible and not the first time, perhaps the 100th time

713 posted on 10/31/2007 1:28:36 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: topcat54; 1000 silverlings
Curious. Is that a joke, or do you really believe that, for example, God is teaching dispensationalism to dispensationalists and the opposite to Reformed people?

My two cents: He doesn't care about "our" labels and might even be amused by them.

Like parables, prophesies hide Truth in plain view. More importantly, it is hidden for His purpose.

God will reveal what He wants to reveal to whomever He wills and at time(s) of His own choosing.

714 posted on 10/31/2007 1:33:14 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Lord_Calvinus; Quix
If the restoration of all things is literally the restoration of all things when the Lord returns, then what will be left to restore after this thousand years the Dispies talk about? Answer: nothing. This means that the heavens and the earth will be restored at the return of the Lord.

I think that it would be reasonable to conclude that God will restore "All the Things" that He said He would restore -- and part of that is the kingdom to Israel. Why is that so unreasonable???

715 posted on 10/31/2007 1:35:51 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Alamo-Girl; topcat54; Dr. Eckleburg

Yes, and I really do believe that dispensationalists aren’t reading the bible. they are reading the opinions of men regarding the bible.


716 posted on 10/31/2007 1:36:07 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Lord_Calvinus
No, eisegesis is a word and he use the appropriate one. Perhaps you should go look it up instead of looking silly for telling him he misspelled the word.

I was funnin' with him. Now who looks silly??? --

717 posted on 10/31/2007 1:39:35 PM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: 1000 silverlings
Truly, it never surprises me that some of my brothers and sisters in Christ are more comfortable turning to commentaries written by men when the Scriptures are not clear.

As for me, when something is not clear, I pray and meditate and then read the Scriptures - not with a magnifying glass, just read them casually, waiting for the Spirit to bring the words of God alive within. He has never disappointed me.

Praise God!!!

718 posted on 10/31/2007 1:41:49 PM PDT by Alamo-Girl
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To: Alamo-Girl

It’s true. Whenever I puzzle over a thing, and ask for Him to reveal more, if that is His will, the answer comes and quickly.


719 posted on 10/31/2007 1:43:03 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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To: Alamo-Girl

And on top of it, it’s not personal revelation either. Other scripture will confirm it.


720 posted on 10/31/2007 1:46:53 PM PDT by 1000 silverlings (Everything that deceives also enchants: Plato)
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