The Concept of the Most Holy Trinity - The Relationship between the Three Persons in One God

Boston Catholic Journal ^

[NYer]

The Concept of the Most Holy Trinity

The Relationship between the Three Persons in One God

 

Some doctrines perplex us more than others. Offhand, we could enumerate the following:

• The Incarnation (the infinite God is born of a woman, the Virgin Mary, and takes upon Himself our finite humanity)

• The Virginal Birth (Mary remained a virgin before, during, and after the conception and birth of her Son, Jesus)

• The Immaculate Conception (Mary's being conceived in her own mother's womb without the stain of Original Sin)

• Creation ex nihilo (the creation by God of something out of nothing)

We assent to these dogmas (dogma, just by the way, is not a four letter word --- but rather, a formally revealed truth) although they remain mysteries, that is to say, they exceed the capacity of reason, while not conflicting with it. No logical contradiction can be adduced to discredit them; they simply lie beyond the province of our natural experience and the limitations inherent in reason (and reason has limitations: we need only ponder the concepts of infinity, infinite divisibility, and eternity to name a few).

Among these dogmas, or revealed truths, however, none quite so perplexes us as the notion of the Most Holy Trinity. That in and of itself it remains a profound mystery is profoundly true. However, because it pertains to the most central aspect of our faith as Catholics and Christians, inasmuch as it pertains to the Person and nature of God, we attempt to apprehend it in some measure, for only in knowing something, in knowing of its nature, can we begin to love it. We do not love what we do not know, and our knowing defectively or insufficiently results in our loving defectively or deficiently.

We wish to know God. We wish to know Him well. In fact, we are convinced --- and rightly so --- that the more we know about God, the more we will find to love in Him, and the more we love, the greater our own felicity ... especially when that love is requited.

Too often, in the minds of Christians, God is reduced to the Father: conceived as an elderly, avuncular figure with a great white beard Who is rather stern and quite distant; one Who is really very little involved in the trivial affairs of men, and so sent His Son instead, and the Son, of course, is less than the Father. What is more, the Son is more compassionate than this remote and rather irascible figure that more resembles Aristotle's Unmoved Mover, than a Father. We like Jesus --- although we fear His Father. In fact, for so many, Christian and pagan alike, Jesus was merely a man, perhaps a wise man, maybe even a prophet of sorts --- but not more. Well ... maybe ... but we are not quite sure how. The Holy Spirit? This faceless Spirit, whatever its nature, clearly cannot be that of a person, although He nevertheless figures largely in this mysterious narrative. Quite a conundrum.

Ask quite nearly every adult Catholic who has, over the past 40 years, suffered from the inexcusable negligence in Catechism, or CCD (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine), as we call it here in America --- a negligence that lays at the feet of the Bishops who, opting for a more visible correctitude in matters social and political, have defaulted on their primary responsibility as Teachers of the Faith in their respective dioceses --- and the answer is the same, although the inflections vary: "I really don't know", or, "it is terribly unclear to me."

Many --- perhaps most --- will reply that there are three gods, or that one is superior to the other, or existed prior to the other, or in fact, that only one is God and the others are something of the nature of demiurges or lesser gods, possessed of remarkable abilities, to be sure, but rather like us in every other way.

Saint Augustine literally wrote volumes on the subject (De Trinitate), as did Saint Thomas Aquinas and many, many, other great and learned Saints. Even the the most modest compendium using the utmost concision will, very likely, avail you little in the way of understanding the most fundamental features of this doctrine, this profound mystery --- and in failing to yield understanding in whatever measure, consequently failing to motivate love for that which is not understood.

Perhaps, then, as it is said, "a picture (in this case a diagram) is worth a thousand words".  So, for the sake of  those who should be teaching and do not, or are teaching and know little of what they teach --- but most of all for the children, we present you a picture --- in the shameful absence of words.

Our motivation is simple: if you do not know God, how can you love Him?

Oh ... yes, ...God does not "look like" the conceptual drawing ... and we truly fear that we are compelled to say that ...
 

[Frank Sheed]

I feel your pain. The sofa and two tables are filled to brimming with unread books. I can’t pass a bookstore without maxing out the old credit card!

;-o)

[ichabod1]

As a minister I’m fond of (Episcopal but I won’t hold it against him) once said, in our church we have altar call every Sunday!

[Zuriel]

**God is also greater than Spirit**

Under the trinity theory, Are you saying that there is one or two persons of the Godhead greater than Spirit (capital ‘S’).
That would not agree with the whole ‘co-equal’ in power, knowledge, presence, etc. etc. that is taught by the endorsers of the trinity.

**Then He deigned to step into those realms with an amount, an aspect of His power and majesty.**

That is the issue. Man says, “I must understand the infinite God.” God says, “my ways are past finding out”. I don’t know what ‘amount’ you consider, but the Word says that the fullness of the Godhead is found in Jesus Christ. That’s good enough for me.

So you are studying dimensions of time and space, that’s interesting. I just call miracles what they are: miracles. Water is suddenly wine; h2o is suddenly joined in the container with a host of other molecules. Walking on water (which Peter did, if only for a few moments), clay and spit opening the eyes of the blind; are miracles. The bypassing of planting, harvest, threshing, milling, and baking, to feed thousands (I believe the fish was ready to eat as well) is a miracle. I can’t do that......unless God would lead me to be the vessel to perform such a thing. But without faith it’s impossible.

[Zuriel]

**I’m not a Catholic, but you ought to be more specific if you wish to question Mary’s perpetual virginity ... HINT: if Jesus can appear in a locked room without using the door or window, can leave a sealed rock tomb without rolling away the stone, there is little to leaving Mary’s womb without using the ‘usual’ passageway of birthing.**

The Word IS specific in that “..when the days of her (Mary)purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that OPENETH the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;) And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, a pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons. Luke 2:22-24

[Alamo-Girl]

Amen! Maranatha, Jesus!!!

[Zuriel]

**First off, the poster does not support his statement. Where is the evidence?**

By the Word. Neither Peter, nor the apostles, nor any place in scripture is a “three persons”, co-equal, co-eternal, co-uncomprehensible, etc. etc. Godhead EVER taught.

To expound on my analogy of the ‘ten tribes’ and the church, there were those in the religous leadership that mixed pagan worship with the Law. Jeroboam promptly laid a foundation of legitamacy (he thought) by setting up shop at Penuel, where Jacob wrestled the angel. Though the majority clave to religious falsehoods, God reserved some that, in the shadows, stayed faithful.

The southern kingdom suffered the same, only it did see some great revivals before the final collapse of the corrupt leadership. Through it all, God still preserved himself a remnant.

Likewise, Satan has transformed himself into an angel of light, laying claim to a foundation of the church: a leadership heritage, preserving the word, setting up a form of godliness but denying the power thereof.

You don’t think that Satan would go that far? Then where is the line he will not cross in deceptive leadership? I’ll tell you one: Water baptism in the NAME of Jesus Christ for the REMISSION of sins. The Lord and the apostles demanded it. It is where the blood is applied to the soul; “buried with him in likeness of His death”. Satan hates the NAME OF JESUS, and has muddied the importance of it by confusing the masses grasp of the Godhead.

The church has not been overthrown, not even close, that I agree, but the testing of ‘the few there be that find it’ includes the challenges of discerning false doctrine. Those few, for generations, have endured, holding the apostles doctrine. Like the politician that hogs attention, Satan has put himself in his various angel of light manifestations, front and center, in the face of the masses. Sooner or later, the hungry and thirsty individual sees through it, since the devil cannot satify the soul.

**the Catholic Church was the only Church that existed up until the Reformation,**

It doesn’t matter if millions believe that, if it does match the original in doctrine, it is not the original church. I don’t care if it started a month after Pentecost 33 A.D.

It’s not a popular position, I know, but Jesus said that would be the case.

[Elsie]

I wonder what the MORMON diagram looks like??

[magisterium]

Certainly, this one needs much less explanation!

[NYer]

Neither Peter, nor the apostles, nor any place in scripture is a “three persons”, co-equal, co-eternal, co-uncomprehensible, etc. etc. Godhead EVER taught.

The Blessed Trinity is three persons in one God. Jesus told his disciples, "to baptize in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit" (Matthew 28: 19). He made it clear that He and the Father and the Holy Spirit are One. There are three divine persons in one God. How there are three persons in one God is a mystery. It is something we cannot fully understand. But we believe it because Jesus told us. We will not understand it until we reach heaven.

[DelphiUser]

I wonder what the MORMON diagram looks like??

I am graphically challenged, in that if I draw stick figures people ask me what they are...

But it would look like the three balls inside a bigger circle, the three balls would be labeled:

1. Father
2. Son
3. Holy Ghost

The large circle encompassing them would be labeled the Godhead (which is actually in the Bible). There would be text inside the Circle that says everything inside the circle is God. Text outside the circle would say everything outside the circle is not God. Anybody who is not graphically challenged want to take a shot at this?

[Elsie]

(Can you do it using text? Kinda like the early, VERY early ‘pictures’ that were printed out on our work place printers?)

[MEGoody]

You mean the one compiled by the Catholic Church.

God can use anyone to accomplish His will. He even used Balaam's ass. ;)

Sorry, but I detected a hint of pride in your statement. Where would we be today if Mary were to have taken pride in being used of God to carry Jesus? That fact is, we'd either be unsaved, or we'd be talking about a different mother of Jesus. God doesn't care much for pride.

[Elsie]

God doesn't care much for pride.

You been readin' my home page? ;^)

[NYer]

God can use anyone to accomplish His will.

Indeed. And He chose to accomplish this by using the Holy Spirit to inspire the bishops of the Church He established on earth. Why is the obvious so challenging to accept? Up until the Reformation, there was only one Christian Church.

Where would we be today if Mary were to have taken pride in being used of God to carry Jesus?

Ouch! Mary was not 'used' by God. The Creator of the Universe asked her permission. She might just as easily have said No.

Were it not for Mary, Jesus might not have been born and this discussion would not be taking place.

[DelphiUser]

You asked for it, so I started with your image, butchered it (not a doctrinal reference, but an artistic one) and uploaded it to photo bucket.



Better?

[Elsie]

Ouch! Mary was not 'used' by God. The Creator of the Universe asked her permission. She might just as easily have said No.

 

Oh?  Somehow I've missed that part.  Can you show it to me??

 

 

 Luke 1:28-39
 28.  The angel went to her and said, "Greetings, you who are highly favored! The Lord is with you."
 29.  Mary was greatly troubled at his words and wondered what kind of greeting this might be.
 30.  But the angel said to her, "Do not be afraid, Mary, you have found favor with God.
 31.  You will be with child and give birth to a son, and you are to give him the name Jesus.
 32.  He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High. The Lord God will give him the throne of his father David,
 33.  and he will reign over the house of Jacob forever; his kingdom will never end."
 34.  "How will this be," Mary asked the angel, "since I am a virgin?"
 35.  The angel answered, "The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. So the holy one to be born will be called  the Son of God.
 36.  Even Elizabeth your relative is going to have a child in her old age, and she who was said to be barren is in her sixth month.
 37.  For nothing is impossible with God."
 38.  "I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said." Then the angel left her. 
 

[Elsie]

I like your picture. It says the same thing as the other one.

How do you send stuff to PhotoBucket?

I can make things, but have no web page or blog to store them on.

[MEGoody]

Why is the obvious so challenging to accept?

The fact that God used a council of human beings to gather together the writings that make up His word is not challenging. God uses men to accomplish His will much of the time.

I do feel compelled to confront it when I detect a note of pride. Human beings should never be proud that God used them to accomplish His will - we should be humbled and grateful.

Mary was not 'used' by God.

She wasn't? So Mary did not serve God? Hmmm. . .

The Creator of the Universe asked her permission. She might just as easily have said No.

Yes, and God would have just used someone else to accomplish His will. Mary was smart enough to know she was blessed and honored to be used by God. She had no pride about it as though she had earned the priviledge.

[NYer]

Thank you, Elsie, for posting that beautiful text of the Immaculate Conception.

"I am the Lord's servant," Mary answered. "May it be to me as you have said."

This is Mary's fiat. She had the option to say no. In total trust, she gave her assent.

[DelphiUser]

I agree with you that "Used" is an unfortunate at best turn of phrase.

I like your picture. It says the same thing as the other one.

Not quite, the other one has three facets of one entity, we have three entities with one job, plan, heart who are of one mind.

This is not a new idea, Jesus told his disciples to "be one even as we are one". This was obviously an analogy on how Jesus and the father are one.

the US has had this concept of oneness for a along time, it's on a lot of our money as E pluribus unum so it's not a unique thought, it is Biblical, it's not the only possible interpretation, from the bible, but it is a valid one.

How do you send stuff to PhotoBucket?

All you have to do is go to photobucket, and sign up, its free.

I don't store things for use here on a server who's domain name I own because that would link me publicly to my contact information, hence, photo bucket.

Why conceal my identity?

• I bash on the Clintons
• I can
• you never know, some anti's seem a bit unbalanced... (it was a joke, OK?)

Please do not misconstrue my strong felings on this for an attack, I recognize that you honestly believe what you believe, and it's got support from the bible, I honestly believe what I believe,and it's got support from the Bible too.