The Concept of the Most Holy Trinity - The Relationship between the Three Persons in One God

Boston Catholic Journal ^

[NYer]

The Concept of the Most Holy Trinity

The Relationship between the Three Persons in One God

 

Some doctrines perplex us more than others. Offhand, we could enumerate the following:

• The Incarnation (the infinite God is born of a woman, the Virgin Mary, and takes upon Himself our finite humanity)

• The Virginal Birth (Mary remained a virgin before, during, and after the conception and birth of her Son, Jesus)

• The Immaculate Conception (Mary's being conceived in her own mother's womb without the stain of Original Sin)

• Creation ex nihilo (the creation by God of something out of nothing)

We assent to these dogmas (dogma, just by the way, is not a four letter word --- but rather, a formally revealed truth) although they remain mysteries, that is to say, they exceed the capacity of reason, while not conflicting with it. No logical contradiction can be adduced to discredit them; they simply lie beyond the province of our natural experience and the limitations inherent in reason (and reason has limitations: we need only ponder the concepts of infinity, infinite divisibility, and eternity to name a few).

Among these dogmas, or revealed truths, however, none quite so perplexes us as the notion of the Most Holy Trinity. That in and of itself it remains a profound mystery is profoundly true. However, because it pertains to the most central aspect of our faith as Catholics and Christians, inasmuch as it pertains to the Person and nature of God, we attempt to apprehend it in some measure, for only in knowing something, in knowing of its nature, can we begin to love it. We do not love what we do not know, and our knowing defectively or insufficiently results in our loving defectively or deficiently.

We wish to know God. We wish to know Him well. In fact, we are convinced --- and rightly so --- that the more we know about God, the more we will find to love in Him, and the more we love, the greater our own felicity ... especially when that love is requited.

Too often, in the minds of Christians, God is reduced to the Father: conceived as an elderly, avuncular figure with a great white beard Who is rather stern and quite distant; one Who is really very little involved in the trivial affairs of men, and so sent His Son instead, and the Son, of course, is less than the Father. What is more, the Son is more compassionate than this remote and rather irascible figure that more resembles Aristotle's Unmoved Mover, than a Father. We like Jesus --- although we fear His Father. In fact, for so many, Christian and pagan alike, Jesus was merely a man, perhaps a wise man, maybe even a prophet of sorts --- but not more. Well ... maybe ... but we are not quite sure how. The Holy Spirit? This faceless Spirit, whatever its nature, clearly cannot be that of a person, although He nevertheless figures largely in this mysterious narrative. Quite a conundrum.

Ask quite nearly every adult Catholic who has, over the past 40 years, suffered from the inexcusable negligence in Catechism, or CCD (Confraternity of Christian Doctrine), as we call it here in America --- a negligence that lays at the feet of the Bishops who, opting for a more visible correctitude in matters social and political, have defaulted on their primary responsibility as Teachers of the Faith in their respective dioceses --- and the answer is the same, although the inflections vary: "I really don't know", or, "it is terribly unclear to me."

Many --- perhaps most --- will reply that there are three gods, or that one is superior to the other, or existed prior to the other, or in fact, that only one is God and the others are something of the nature of demiurges or lesser gods, possessed of remarkable abilities, to be sure, but rather like us in every other way.

Saint Augustine literally wrote volumes on the subject (De Trinitate), as did Saint Thomas Aquinas and many, many, other great and learned Saints. Even the the most modest compendium using the utmost concision will, very likely, avail you little in the way of understanding the most fundamental features of this doctrine, this profound mystery --- and in failing to yield understanding in whatever measure, consequently failing to motivate love for that which is not understood.

Perhaps, then, as it is said, "a picture (in this case a diagram) is worth a thousand words".  So, for the sake of  those who should be teaching and do not, or are teaching and know little of what they teach --- but most of all for the children, we present you a picture --- in the shameful absence of words.

Our motivation is simple: if you do not know God, how can you love Him?

Oh ... yes, ...God does not "look like" the conceptual drawing ... and we truly fear that we are compelled to say that ...
 

[Elsie]

I sorry, but I still do NOT see where GOD asked her permission.

[Elsie]

Not quite, the other one has three facets of one entity, we have three entities with one job, plan, heart who are of one mind.

You might be right, but this info can't be gleaned from the pictures.

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Please do not misconstrue my strong felings on this for an attack, I recognize that you honestly believe what you believe, and it's got support from the bible, I honestly believe what I believe,and it's got support from the Bible too.

No problem. I understand exactly where you are coming from.

MY problem is that I believe the Bible when it predicts things like Mormonism coming along.

[Elsie]

Why conceal my identity?

I bash on the Clintons

I can

you never know, some anti's seem a bit unbalanced... (it was a joke, OK?)

lol

I see exactly why. My ID stuff will be going away soon, for...

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...I just got a FAST connection to the Web guys, so can see your YouTWOB links now! (Will I EVER waste time at high speed now!)

[DelphiUser]

You might be right, but this info can't be gleaned from the pictures.

I said I was graphically challenged, LOL!

MY problem is that I believe the Bible when it predicts things like Mormonism coming along.

and I believe the Bible predicted the Nicene creed would come along...

As my relatives in the south say... You say Tomato, I say 'mater, you say potato, I say 'tater...

Depending on your perspective, a rose by any other name might smell as sweet, or still have thorns, it's up to you which perspective you want to come at life, the Gospel and other people from. My perspective is never going to be considered "Orthodox" Mormon or not, My autistic tendencies make that a certainty.

Have a good day, and thanks for pinging me to this thread.

[Elsie]

and I believe the Bible predicted the Nicene creed would come along...

And just WHAT is so ABOMINABLE in that creed??

[DelphiUser]

OK, here are some funnies.

Hillary on religion
Mormons learning from Mormon missionaries
Funnies from church

If you can't laugh at yourself, every one else will...

[DelphiUser]

And just WHAT is so ABOMINABLE in that creed??

Let me make it simple:
If God and Christ are in reality not of the same substance, then teaching that they are obscures the scriptures and keeps people from becoming like Jesus.

If God and Christ are in reality of the same substance, then teaching that they are not obscures the scriptures and keeps people from becoming like God.

If one is right, the other is abominable, which is why you think what we believe is abominable, and I'm OK with that, what you believe, I think is abominable, But, I still think you are a Christian, and I believe you are sincere in your misunderstanding of the scriptures. I wold be fine with you saying the same thing about me, but your side keeps trying to say i am not a "Christian" because I believe a doctrine you don't.

As I have told many:
"Reality Is. Our job is to get our perspective as close as we can to reality, thus we avoid pain, and come closer to God, who is the only one whose perspective and reality are the same thing. Like the Chinese, I shorten this to two words to express to people who know my philosophy. "Reality Is."

Elsie, Reality Is.

[NYer]

I sorry, but I still do NOT see where GOD asked her permission.

Angels are messengers from God. The angel Gabriel brings an 'announcement'. Have you ever received a wedding announcement? It requires a response. This is no different. Mary is asked to assent to a truth never expressed before. The angel awaits an answer; it is time for him to return to God who sent him.

[Elsie]

...but your side keeps trying to say i am not a "Christian" because I believe a doctrine you don't.

No; this is inaccurate.

We say you worship a different Jesus than we do.

The Bereans were more noble than the Thessalonicans because they SEARCHED the Scriptures to see if what they were told was true.

You guys search for a FEELING to see if what you've been told is true.

[Elsie]

Let me make it simple:

If God and Christ are in reality not of the same substance, then teaching that they are obscures the scriptures and keeps people from becoming like Jesus.

If God and Christ are in reality of the same substance, then teaching that they are not obscures the scriptures and keeps people from becoming like God.

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Let me likewise keep it simple:

Genesis 3:5
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Becoming like GOD is not very high on our adgenda.

[Elsie]

The angel awaits an answer; it is time for him to return to God who sent him.

Sorry; but I do not see where he awaited an answer to a question that was not asked.

Mary was TOLD what was going to happen: it says so in the text. To spin it so that is NOT what the text says... well...

[Elsie]

If one is right, the other is abominable, which is why you think what we believe is abominable......

More bad logic.

One. We don't think one is abominable - but just WRONG.

Two. The ideas after the THENS in your statements: where do they come from?

[NYer]

Mary was TOLD what was going to happen: it says so in the text. To spin it so that is NOT what the text says... well...

Have you ever received a wedding announcement? It announces a beautiful event that is about to take place and awaits a response from you.

Elsie, in what language was Scripture written?

[DelphiUser]

We say you worship a different Jesus than we do.

We worship Jesus Christ, the one in the Bible, Son of Mary, born of a virgin birth, only begotten of the father after the manner of the flesh, He Healed the sick, cleansed lepers, the blind saw through his blessing, he raised the dead, He suffered in gethsemanie, was crucified, and resurrected on the third day, he is the savior of mankind, only name under heaven wherein salvation cometh, do you worship someone else?

The Bereans were more noble than the Thessalonicans because they SEARCHED the Scriptures to see if what they were told was true.

You guys search for a FEELING to see if what you've been told is true.

This is not true, Joseph smith in D&C 9:5-9

5 And, behold, it is because that you did not continue as you commenced, when you began to translate, that I have taken away this privilege from you.
6 Do not murmur, my son, for it is wisdom in me that I have dealt with you after this manner.
7 Behold, you have not understood; you have supposed that I would give it unto you, when you took no thought save it was to ask me.
8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.
9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

We are commanded to Study before we ask, not just ask unthinking as you are saying here.

This quotation is also one of the reasons why Momrons are not shocked when told that Joseph is not perfect, we knew that already, like Moses, Jonah, and many other old testament prophets, he had his flaws, and they are recorded in our scriptures, just like the prophets of old.

[DelphiUser]

Let me likewise keep it simple:

Genesis 3:5
"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Becoming like GOD is not very high on our adgenda.

Let me respond in kind...

22 ¶ And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

For once, Satan told the truth. Ya just can't trust a liar to even lie reliably, can you.

[DelphiUser]

I Said: If one is right, the other is abominable, which is why you think what we believe is abominable......

You Said: More bad logic.

One. We don't think one is abominable - but just WRONG.

So, you believe that being wrong about God is not abominable? Got it.

You Said: Two. The ideas after the THENS in your statements: where do they come from?

First, the Word "THEN does not appear anywhere in My Post

Second I never try to draw a conclusion, but leave the logic (obvious as it is) to the reader. I do say the If's are just not possible. Then I engage in logic in the form of "Since X is true, Y must also be true". I have stated that you are free to disagree, but not to tell me I can't believe.

[Elsie]

Elsie, in what language was Scripture written?

Mostly Hebrew and Mostly Greek.

With some things being inHittie and a smattering of othe ancient languages in the OLD, and a few other words in amoung the Greek.

[Elsie]

You guys search for a FEELING to see if what you've been told is true.

This is not true, Joseph smith in D&C 9:5-9

8 But, behold, I say unto you, that you must study it out in your mind; then you must ask me if it be right, and if it is right I will cause that your bosom shall burn within you; therefore, you shall feel that it is right.

9 But if it be not right you shall have no such feelings, but you shall have a stupor of thought that shall cause you to forget the thing which is wrong; therefore, you cannot write that which is sacred save it be given you from me.

HUH? How do you mange to SKIP right over what your own Living Prophet® had written??

[Elsie]

First, the Word "THEN does not appear anywhere in My Post

Let me make it simple:
If God and Christ are in reality not of the same substance, then teaching that they are obscures the scriptures and keeps people from becoming like Jesus.

If God and Christ are in reality of the same substance, then teaching that they are not obscures the scriptures and keeps people from becoming like God.

If one is right, (then implied) the other is abominable, which is why you think what we believe is abominable, and I'm OK with that, what you believe, I think is abominable, But, I still think you are a Christian, and I believe you are sincere in your misunderstanding of the scriptures. I wold be fine with you saying the same thing about me, but your side keeps trying to say i am not a "Christian" because I believe a doctrine you don't.

As I have told many:
"Reality Is. Our job is to get our perspective as close as we can to reality, thus we avoid pain, and come closer to God, who is the only one whose perspective and reality are the same thing. Like the Chinese, I shorten this to two words to express to people who know my philosophy. "Reality Is."

Elsie, Reality Is.

What!!!???

 

Now you can't even read your OWN words!!!

 

DU, are you channeling SOMEone else?

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Second I never try to draw a conclusion, but leave the logic (obvious as it is) to the reader.

When the logic statement says... 

If  X or Y then Z

...and you've supplied the Z, then, you HAVE drawn a conclusion by limiting the range of answers that could fit the critiria.

[DelphiUser]

DU, are you channeling SOMEone else?

Note to self, do not post while half asleep and installing a new server.

I was for some reason looking for sentences that start with then, I have no idea why, reality is, I messed up a post.

My original logic is still valid though:

Let me make it simple:

If God and Christ are in reality not of the same substance, then teaching that they are obscures the scriptures and keeps people from becoming like Jesus.

If God and Christ are in reality of the same substance, then teaching that they are not obscures the scriptures and keeps people from becoming like God.

If one is right, the other is abominable, which is why you think what we believe is abominable, and I'm OK with that, what you believe, I think is abominable, But, I still think you are a Christian, and I believe you are sincere in your misunderstanding of the scriptures. I wold be fine with you saying the same thing about me, but your side keeps trying to say i am not a "Christian" because I believe a doctrine you don't. As I have told many:
"Reality Is. Our job is to get our perspective as close as we can to reality, thus we avoid pain, and come closer to God, who is the only one whose perspective and reality are the same thing. Like the Chinese, I shorten this to two words to express to people who know my philosophy. "Reality Is."

Elsie, Reality Is.

In Reality God is not Both the same and different substances, one is right, and the other wrong.

Teaching false doctrine leads people away from God.

Leading people away from God and reality is abominable in God's sight.

Judging other people and denying what they say they believe is not reality, unless you can prove they are lying.

Denying that they have a perfect understanding of reality is to be in the Beam / mote situation described by Jesus.

I freely admit that I do not fully comprehend the mind of God, Do you?

I state that I am following the light and truth that he has manifested in my life through his son Jesus Christ.

I testify that Jesus Christ is the son of God, that he Died for you and me to atone for our sins on the cross and was resurrected that all me may be reconciled to God and that the bands of death were broken by him.

Is this not the very meaning of the word Christian? someone who believes in and on Jesus Christ?

Definition of the word Christian form Dictionary.com