Posted on 10/03/2007 4:08:03 PM PDT by Balt
There's a very interesting story over at the Cybercast News Service, if you can stomach it.
(CNSNews.com) - Science must ultimately destroy organized religion, according to some of the leading atheist writers and intellectuals who spoke at a recent atheist conference in Northern Virginia. God is a myth, and children must not be schooled in any faith, they said, at the "Crystal Clear Atheism" event, sponsored by the Atheist Alliance International.
I'm not going to rehash the article for you -- you can click on the link and read it for your self. It's pretty alarming when you actually read what some of them are saying. Besides, I've given over enough space here recently to pointing out what other people have said (in the classic blogosphere style).
I would, however, like to do what I like to do, which is pick out one little thing and beat it to death. And here it is -- and you'll admit, it's worthy of a beatin':
But whatever differences the speakers had with each other, they were united in their contempt for religion and their belief that religious faith had to be challenged and ridiculed by secularism and reason.
"Religion is not the root of all evil, but it gets in the way of [determining] how we got here and where we find ourselves," Dawkins said. "And that is an evil in itself."
Dawkins was particularly critical of parents who raise their children as a "Catholic child" or "Protestant child." Children must not be labeled as subscribing to a particular religion, he said, and should be allowed to examine the evidence and determine their beliefs for themselves.
The Dawkins referred to is Oxford professor Richard Dawkins.
This one hit a PP nerve for a couple of reasons: first, no religion -- but especially the Catholic religion -- can survive without catechizing its young; and the atheists know this. We don't learn the faith because of some adult program in the parish or through the RCIA (which your PP regards as a Communist plot); we learn it on our mothers' knees (forgive me for emphasizing my own words).
But more importantly, Dawkins sentiments appeal to a rationalistic thread that has crept into the gray cells of many Christians, including Catholics; particularly those who like to style themselves "Thinking Catholics" -- you know, the "Bill O'Reily type" of Catholic -- the ones who say, "I'm a Catholic, but I don't believe everything the Church teaches -- as if accepting everything the Church teaches requires you check your brain at the door. In this particular instance, their reasoning goes something like this: "My faith is important to me, but I want my child to grow up and decide for himself. After all, I want him to believe it, not just follow along because I forced it on him as a kid."
To a middle class, ex-yuppie, suburbanite Catholic parent, this is an extremely seductive sentiment. It appeals to everything the American professional class deems noble; satiating the twin desires of nominal fidelity to the faith and a "healthy" respect for intellectual honesty, with just a teaspoon or so of Hillary Clinton-esque "it's-all-for-the-children-ism" thrown in for seasoning (which now comes, I'm told, in a low sodium version in an easy-open bag).
What's wrong with it shouldn't need to be said, which is another way of saying it needs to be said; and even Atheism's most radical fundamentalists, the members of the Global Warming sect, know this. Otherwise, they wouldn't be forcing our kids to watch Al Gore's evangelical movie, "The Passion of the Gore," in our public schools. Try this test when the true believers want to show Gore's film to your kid in school: send a note saying, "Saving the planet is important to me, but I want my child to grow up and decide for himself. After all, I want him to believe it, not just follow along because I forced it on him as a kid." See how much open-minded intellectual honesty you get in response.
Despite what they would have us believe (no pun intended), today's Atheists are not freedom fighters in the struggle against religious coercion; they are fundamentalist devotees to an eschatological vision, engaged in a holy Jihad:
In his speech, Dawkins portrayed a black-and-white intellectual battle between atheism and religion. He denounced the "preposterous nonsense of religious customs" and compared religion to racism. He also gave no quarter to moderate or liberal believers, asserting that "so-called moderate Christianity is simply an evasion."
"If you've been taught to believe it by moderates, what's to stop you from taking the next step and blowing yourself up?" he said.
Osama Bin Laden couldn't have said it better himself.
If you're ever tempted to believe the fiction that there has to be a conflict between faith and reason, your PP recommends the "Two Toms" cure: read Thomas More and Thomas Aquinas. In the mean time, just snicker at this deliciously ironic conclusion:
Although Crystal Clear Atheism was well-attended, it received little publicity and media attention. The convention also experienced frequent technical difficulties, particularly during Dawkins' Powerpoint slideshow.
Just think about it for a while. You'll get it.
LOL at that title!
If there’s no God, why can’t I kill these people for annoying me? Who’s to say that’s wrong? I know atheists proclaim high morality, but based on what, and who are they to define my morality? They annoy me, and the only thing holding me back is my religion that tells me there is something greater than me. But if there’s nothing greater than me, why must I suffer such an annoyance? If we are but animals, then these emotions are worthless as well. Why have guilt, when I'll just be dust? And this altruism thing must be banished as just a lie that the weak keep spreading.
Atheism will finally free man kind to euthanise the weak and create a master race! Why hasn't anyone thought of this before?
Well, if the only thing that is stopping you from killing people is your belief in God, then I’m sure any atheists you meet will be happy to leave you and your faith alone!
They have done it before...They will try again.
I have ammended one paragraph in the above post as follows:
What’s wrong with it shouldn’t need to be said, which is another way of saying it needs to be said; and even Atheism’s most radical fundamentalists, the members of the Global Warming sect, know this. Otherwise, they wouldn’t be forcing our kids to watch Al Gore’s evangelical movie, “The Passion of the Gore,” in our public schools. Try this test when the true believers want to show Gore’s film to your kid in school: send a note saying, “Saving the planet is important to me, but I want my child to grow up and decide for himself. After all, I want him to believe it, not just follow along because I forced it on him as a kid.” See how much open-minded intellectual honesty you get in response. In other words, the second generation ex-yuppie kid who is intentionally “uncatechized” by his “thoughtful” parents does not waltz into adulthood with the religious and philosophical blank slate they intend, free and clear to “make up his own mind.” He gets there with the very potential of a life of faith shattered and destroyed because his parents, by denying him the catechism, threw him to the wolf-pack of a secular fundamentalist evangelism without the knowledge and formation required to mount any defense against atheistic proselytizing.
Is there a reason that an animal shouldn't kill another animal if it benefits them? It happens every day, and we don't think animals immoral? So if man is but an animal...
I think your point makes perfect sense, SampleMan ... although I'd add that I don't kill irritating neighbors (or even their barking dogs) because it's against the law, and I don't want to go to jail. AND because my religion says it's wrong, of course!
Just waiting for the Atheist version of the Beer Hall Putsch.
Just waiting for the Atheist version of the Beer Hall Putsch.
Well, man is an animal, whether or not there's a God. That's just a simple matter of biology.
In any case, what sets us apart from other species is that we have formed highly complex societies within which we all have to live and breathe. And as such there are many good reasons not to go around killing and raping people that have nothing to do with believing in God:
The number of people who would benefit from the free-for-all you suggest would happen if there was no God is vanishingly small, which is why there are perfectly good rational, materialistic reasons to behave morally. Namely, you can have a good, comfortable life without having to fight tooth and claw every step of the way. As an atheist why would I want to exchange a long life for what would probably be a short, brutal one? It's called enlightened self-interest.
When I was a kid, growing up with Christian parents, my basic lessons on morality were not God-based. Whenever I asked about things like littering, swearing, bullying, or anything involving the feelings of others or the public good, they didn't just say that God said it, so it must be so. They explained why such things are bad in terms of how I would feel if the bad things were happening to me. i.e the Golden Rule.
That is how millions of kids are introduced to morality. Sure, in Muslim and Christian families, it's often wrapped up in religious terms, but the lesson is basically the same.
But with God, we are not "but an animal". We are much more. Just as the Earth is much more than another planet.
In any case, what sets us apart from other species is that we have formed highly complex societies within which we all have to live and breathe. And as such there are many good reasons not to go around killing and raping people that have nothing to do with believing in God:
So say you. This is far from universally accepted outside of the Christian world. Tartars threw their children into pits to fight wild dogs, and Spartans euthanized the weak. They saw nothing wrong with it and they do not appear to have been tortured by an inner innate morality. Indeed the Romans had people butchered for entertainment by the thousands. All these peoples and hundreds more had different values, from what you describe as common, that they felt were superior. The Golden Rule is not universally valued outside of Christianity. You mention Islam, it directly teaches that differing peoples are NOT to be treated with the confines of the Golden Rule.
It is a common thread of atheists to accept the value of Christian ethics, while rejecting their uniqueness. It is the tendency to find heaven delightful, except for God, who they find too superior. Its flattering that atheists recognize the moral superiority of Christianity, but is laughable when they try to claim ownership.
These guys are just aiming for bucks by making controversial, dumb statements. The tares are willing to shell out the green in order to affirm their paganism.
Are you saying that all the millions of people living in the USA today would suddenly prefer to live in a barbaric culture where most of them would likely die in less than a year if suddenly they realized there is no God? Very odd assertion.
Nearly half the British population are non-believers. Why isn’t their society in turmoil with murderers and rape gangs on every corner? What about Sweden, one of the most prosperous nations on the planet? Majority non-believers.
Honestly, anyone with two ounces of common sense can see the advantages of behaving in a lawful and moral manner, even if they haven’t the slightest knowledge of religion. Morality doesn’t just disappear with non-belief. Wherever it comes from (materialistic or not) it is part of who we are and the foundation upon which our civilization stands.
I’ll even grant that Christianity has played an important part in that process (not always for the better), but it certainly wasn’t an instant cure-all, taking nearly 2,000 years to get where we are today, and the pagan Athenians (democracy, law courts, randomly selected juries, etc) certainly contributed much to the process too. They certainly saw a lot of benefits to behaving in lawful and moral ways, long before Jesus was around.
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