Posted on 09/10/2007 6:18:13 AM PDT by stfassisi
I don't believe that I ever "fight" about it but when the caucus flag is set then the likes of me are not welcome.
I love your posts!!!!!!
I’m starting a MadDawg fan club. I am sort of like a stalker of yours, I do follow threads you post on and read them and either learn or laugh. Which is great because right now my son is trying to prove that he can fit his entire body under my rib cage while his sister fights for what is remaining of my lap. This whole motherhood thing, it ain’t for wimps.
Anyway, I love Caucus threads, because I can focus on the material and not the silly, repetitive arguments.
This is a very good article that explains this clearly
http://www.voxpopuli.org/response_to_7_common_objections_part1.php
Excerpt
“The term “co-redemptrix” is properly translated “the woman with the redeemer” or more literally “she who buys back with [the redeemer].” The prefix “co” comes from the Latin term “cum” which means “with” and not “equal to.” Co-redemptrix therefore as applied to Mary refers to her exceptional cooperation with and under her divine son Jesus Christ, in the redemption of the human family, as manifested in Christian Scripture.
With Mary’s free and active “fiat” to the invitation of the angel Gabriel to become the mother of Jesus, “Be it done unto me according to your word” (Lk. 1:38), she uniquely cooperated with the work of redemption by giving the divine Redeemer his body, which was the very instrument of human redemption. “We have been sanctified by the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all” (Heb. 10:10), and the body of Jesus Christ is given to him through the free, active, and unique cooperation of the Virgin Mary. By virtue of giving flesh to the “Word made flesh” (Jn. 1:14), who in turn redeems humanity, the Virgin of Nazareth uniquely merits the title Co-redemptrix. In the words of the late Mother Teresa of Calcutta, “Of course Mary is the Co-redemptrix - she gave Jesus his body, and his body is what saved us.”
We see this also through the writings from the Early Church Fathers right up til Pope John Paul and Pope Benedict XVI
Some writings
“The Virgin received Salvation so that she may give it back to the centuries.” Peter Chrysologus, Sermon 140 (ante A.D. 450).
“Cease your laments; I will make myself your advocate in my Son’s presence. Meanwhile, no more sadness, because I have brought joy to the world. For it is to destroy the kingdom of sorrow that I have come into the world: I full of grace ... Then curb your tears; accept me as your mediatrix in the presence of him who was born from me, because the author of joy is the God generated before all ages. Remain calm; be troubled no longer: I come from him, full of grace.” Romanos the Singer, On Christmas 2,10-11 (ante A.D. 560).
O, how marvelous it is! She acts as a mediatrix between the loftiness of God and the lowliness of the flesh, and becomes Mother of the Creator.” Andrew of Crete, Homily 1 on Mary’s Nativity (ante A.D. 740).
“And who, after your Jesus, is as tenderly solicitous for our welfare as you [Mary] are? Who defends us in the temptations with which we are afflicted as you defend us? Who, like you, undertakes to protect sinners, fighting, as it were, on their behalf’?”-St. Germanus of Constantinople
“...trusting in her intercession with Christ our Lord, who though sole Mediator between God and man, wished however to make His Mother advocate for sinners and the dispenser and mediatrix of grace....”-Pope Pius XI
“Having suffered for the Church, Mary deserved to become the mother of all her Son’s disciples, the mother of their unity.. ..The Church recognizes in her a mother who keeps watch over its development and does not cease to intercede with her Son to obtain for Christians more profound dispositions of faith, of hope, of love. Mary seeks to promote the greatest possible unity of Christians, because a mother strives to ensure accord among her children. There is no more ecumenical heart greater or more ardent than Mary’s heart. It is to this perfect mother that the Church has recourse in all its difficulties.” -Pope John Paul ll
See my post 18, I’m sorry, it was all my fault.
I bookmarked the site before it was deleted.
Dear Friend,don't worry about it,there was is no harm done by your post.
Understanding our Blessed Mother's role in Salvation history seems to scare some people. This is very sad because they miss out on the fullness of Christianity.
I wish you a Blessed Evening!
Man, you guys should have seen the old days before the Religion Mod!
What was funny was that a few of the most heated flame throwers actually liked each other somewhat (one was Catholic, the other Reformed). But both crossed the line to many times.
**Man, you guys should have seen the old days before the Religion Mod!**
Patriotic 1 and I were just discussing this about the (leftist) post about the Pope on the news forum.
The Early Church Fathers on the Immaculate Conception - Catholic/Orthodox Caucus
Dungeon Master, a man of great virtue, piety, and motorcyle, finds in the sayings of Our Lord about "Who are my brothers...?" and "yeah rather, blessed are those that hear ..." a kind of pre-emptive stifling of Marian piety. TO me that seems akin to typological reading, but to him it seems as plain as a pikestaff. I read the Lord overshadowing the ark and I see a 'type' of Our Lady. But when I say so, some slap their foreheads and appeal with lifted hands to heaven against such readings INTO the text, as they see it.
So the apologetic problem seems very great, either way.
Sorry, I can’t respond on this thread.
Sure you can. At least as I read the guidelines the option of responding like a guest in someone else's house is open to anyone. Caucus status does not, as I understand it, preclude visitors. It precludes combativeness.
I'm open to correction on this.
I absolutely LOVE typology!!!! But as you suggest, we tend to see different types in the same(ish) bible. One of my very favorites is how Joseph, in Genesis is such an amazing type of Christ.
Massive ponderous 10-4! It’s the kind of thing that could make a fellow believe in God! But let’s not go overboard here ....
Two quotes that I'm sure that you or most protestants have never read.
"It is a sweet and pious belief that the infusion of Mary’s soul was effected without original sin; so that in the very infusion of her soul she was also purified from original sin and adorned with God’s gifts, receiving a pure soul infused by God; thus from the first moment she began to live she was free from all sin" (Martin Luther, Sermon: "On the Day of the Conception of the Mother of God," 1527).
"She is full of grace, proclaimed to be entirely without sin—something exceedingly great. For God’s grace fills her with everything good and makes her devoid of all evil." (Martin Luther, Personal {"Little"} Prayer Book, 1522).
This is a Caucus thread. If I understand correctly, there is no mugging, either inbound OR outbound. A post like this could cost us Caucus status. If we are going to entertain visitors and expect them to act like guests, we must act like hosts, not pugilists.<p/Self-righteous rant off.
I requested Bible references, thank you
odd, my original comments were not combative, only differing, yet they were deleted by the mod who considered them unsuitable for a caucus thread
That said, I will now abandon this thread and leave you folks to discuss your topic
Here's what I think - if you'll pardon the over-statement:
(See? Note the corny humor and self-deprecation. These are the verbal equivalents of hunched shoulders and lowered head -- submission signals. I once got out of a traffic ticket by adopting a submission posture like that. Instead of the ticket I got a warm fatherly lecture. hee hee hee!)
There are all sorts of phrases and (in real time, face to face interactions) gestures one can use to reduce the tension some kinds of questions seem naturally to provoke. Religion touches us at the deepest places, which accounts for the bloody fights on the religion Forum. When somebody "goes after" our thought about Our Lady, he's talking about a woman I love and have deep affection for. It's close to asking me to consider a challenge to my wife's integrity.
Consequently a rich, frequent, redundant, over and over again, repeated use of such mollifying phrases is better than a simple question, simply put w/o introduction. A positive statement and demonstration that "we come in peace," can work, while assuming that people KNOW your intentions are non-combative doesn't work.
As you know, my reaction to your original post was that it was a challenge, rather than a question, and my response was to suggest recasting it.
And, as I recall, (possibly incorrectly) the question was about the Immaculate Conception. Since the article is about the "co-redemptrix" issue, the redirection of focus may also elicit a kind of "startle" or "flight-or-fight" response.
After all, the whole co-redemptrix thing is controversial enough whatever Our Lady's sinful/sinlessness might or might not be.
Does that make any sense at all? Short answer: your intentions may have been peaceful, I'm quite eager to concede that, but the post "sounded" aggressive, which is not necessarily your fault, as such, but over which you have some control
(If I acted as good as I talk, I'd be in heaven already.)
There is this one freeper that when I see his/her name I skip right past the comments. I believe he/her hates the Catholic church.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.