Loss of reverence at the Novus Ordo

Vultus Christi ^ | August 28, 2007 | Fr. Mark

[Cheverus]

My Uncle is a Priest and while we call him Uncle First Name in family circles, whenever I would refer to him in mixed company it is always Fr. Last Name

Even two fellows I knew before Ordination I address as Fr. Last Name. Sometimes I feel it’s kind of tongue in cheek but I always tell them I like the sound of it.

[Cheverus]

You do know it’s more humble to call attention to yourself by breaking with tradition and calling attention to yourself don’t you?

Fr. Kickham once said we could call him Fr. Bob, I replied “You know what Fr.? You could move into my house with me and I’d STILL call you Fr. Kickham”

[maryz]

You do know it’s more humble to call attention to yourself . . .

Oh, always! ;-)

Mind you, if that were the worst thing someone did, I doubt I'd find it more than a minor annoyance!

[Patriotic1]

Not all N.O. masses are this way. My workday parish is VERY reverent and acts like Fr. expects. My weekend/home parish is still relatively reverent.

I think that Church architecture (and I mean much more than a communion rail) has a lot to do with it.

[Theophane]

Glad someone else answered the first name question; now I recall that, too, as in, e.g, “Monk Mark” (that would be more Eastern, perhaps, but gets the idea—or Fr. Seraphim (Rose)).

Fr. Mark is very orthodox and seems well disposed to the Classic Liturgy. If you drill back into his archives you will see a phto of him celebrating Mass ad orientem at some convent, where the altar is quite new looking, but he is still ad orientem anyway. I rank his blog site
http://vultus.stblogs.org/
as one of the best in the Catholic blogosphere, up there with the Franciscans of the Immaculates’ “Air Maria”, which is also a must visit daily site: http://airmaria.com/

[maryz]

Thanks for the links!

[livius]

Actually, use of the first name (preceded by Father, of course) doesn’t bother me. The Orthodox always refer to their priest as “Father Dmitri,” or whatever, and of course religious in the Latin Rite are often known as Brother or Father [First Name].

In some countries, the first name is used with a title that makes it very formal: A Spaniard will greet his boss as Don José, for example, although he would never call him simply José.

So as long as they keep the “Father” part, I don’t care.

[livius]

Great post! I’m sending this article off to a (very beleaguered) priest in my parish.

[Bigg Red]

Re: the Father Mark comment of mine:

I have since learned that Fr. Mark is a monk and that Fr. Mark is his clerical name and, therefore, a totally respectful way to address him.

So my comment about the practice that I complained of does not apply here, and my apologies to Fr. Mark are in order.

[A.A. Cunningham]

In the church where I offered Mass last Saturday there were four Extraordinary Ministers of Holy Communion, all of whom were women. Three were wearing casual slacks and one was showing cleavage. They could have been serving lemonade at the parish garden party. It was frightfully inappropriate.

Father Mark hopefully realizes that he is under no obligation to use EMHCs if he does not want to and at the very least the one exposing herself should have been told to go and sit back down.

[maryz]

Yes, and it suddenly struck me that the tradition among the Orthodox and the Orders was probably established long before surnames came into general use.

[Mad Dawg]

FWIW, in Mississippi and the rural parts around here (Central VA) "Mister" + First name is perfectly acceptable usage. In Jackson, Mississippi two prominent and, as you might say, "upper class" ladies in the congregation were called "Lady Betty" and "Miss Jo", though they were both married.

I'm not arguing here for propriety, just that in a country as large as ours there are regional proprieties.

Mind you, the priest I used to go to the range with, the one who became a decent IDPA contender and was extremely fast from out-of-the-leather to lead-downrange was called "Father Quick Draw", but that may be a special case ....

[maryz]

"upper class" ladies in the congregation were called "Lady Betty" and "Miss Jo",

I've heard of that southern usage, and from my reading that was also the usage of servants for the master's family, at least in the 19th century. But I'm in Boston, and it was never the usage here for priests. It just showed up out of nowhere, for no reason that I can imagine! To my ear, it's just too cutesy!

In practical terms, it makes no difference to me -- I've never addressed a priest as anything but "Father," though I use the last name in talking about a priest. Which reminds me of the old-fashioned Irish (and maybe other) usage of talking about a priest as simply "Father," as if there's only the one. That sort of annoyed me too, but since I haven't heard it in about 40 years, it's not really a problem.

In fact, none of it's an actual problem, though I admit I get persnickety about usage! (Apparently other people do, too, or there wouldn't have been so many comments on this!)

As for "Father Quick Draw," why, whatever else would anyone ever call him? ;-)

[Mad Dawg]

I think because I'm a former clergydude in the church of what's happening now, aka the PespiCola Church, A lot of RC Clergy treat me as a colleague manquee. So Fr Quick Draw welcomed the verbal punched to the arm (well, and sometimes physical) that I gave him. I also bought him a nice St Gabriel Possenti Medal when the Dominicans sent him far, far away to Rhode Island. (That St. Gabriel Possenti! He could SHOOT!)

Yeah, I think the "Fr. Bill" stuff is in general a "Spirit of Vatican II" thing. (gag, gag, retch.) I'm just thinking it's not intrinsically wrong, and can be respectful, and it grates less upon the ear down here than up north. And it has been a feature of my "spirituality" and a part of lots of my Baptismal sermons that, well, when the roll is called up yonder, God is not going to say,"Dawg, Mad, front and center!" but will call me by my Baptismal name (before he directs me to door marked "Purgatory".)

When I introduced my then 3 year old 'orrible brat child to the manager of the co-op, I just naturally told her to call him "Mr. Earl", Earl being his first name, and he beamed and later complimented me on teaching my girl manners instead of saying she could call him by his first name with no honorific. Autres gens, autres moeurs