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collared (Church of Sweden clergy demonstrate in Stockholm)
Off the Record ^ | August 5, 2007 | Diogenes

Posted on 08/05/2007 3:41:41 PM PDT by NYer


The photo above purports to show (Lutheran) Church of Sweden clergy demonstrating yesterday in Stockholm to "break the conspiracy of silence regarding homosexuals, bisexuals, and transsexuals." Few of us, perhaps, would have noticed a great deal of silence on the issue, but I suppose these ministers are specially trained to listen for it.

But my interest was tweaked by a side issue: the marchers' use of the roman collar. In standard progressivist polemic, the roman collar is deplored as a token of clericalism, and more particularly of the hierarchical subordination typified by the Church of Rome. We might expect that progressives, in keeping with their anti-hierarchical convictions, would never let themselves appear in the roman collar, either dressing indistinguishably from the laity or creating an alternative garb more emblematic of humility.

Yet the fact is that attempts at replacement insignia have flopped; no badge expresses the notion "clergy" as unequivocally as the roman collar. This means that -- on those infrequent occasions when progressivists want to be publicly identifiable as clergy -- on goes the collar, out go the principles.

It's not without an amusing side. Those instances on which the forward-thinking brethren summon the bad old hierarchical caste system to their aid do not redound to their credit. Attorneys for priest-defendants regularly stuff them into the too-snug clerics fished out from the depths of the rectory closet, hoping the jury will atavistically respond to the uniform. Here's an example from a churchman with advanced ideas about youth ministry:

Fr Joseph Jordan was a modern priest, always dressed in baseball cap, tracksuit and trainers. One mother remarked that the only time she had seen him in clerical garb was in the dock at Cardiff Crown Court.

In addition to arraignment fashions, the roman collar also comes in handy when television or news cameras are at hand, and it's politically more expedient for, say, Professor Richard McBrien to weigh-in as Father Richard McBrien. Dressed in a jacket and tie, a refractory Catholic academic comes across on the tube as just another refractory Catholic academic, his Holy Orders notwithstanding. (For analogous reasons, when military officers go on television to oppose some aspect of administration policy, the producers make sure they're in uniform.)

And then, finally, there is the public street demonstration, as exemplified in the photo from Stockholm. The marching ministers even put aside their pastel clergy shirts in favor of deadpan Catholic black, lest inattentive spectators mistake them for random amateur cross-dressers. There's a "me too" dimension to their use of the roman collar: "You should take us seriously, because the collar is an emblem of clergyhood and clergyhood an emblem of ecclesial authority and ecclesial authority an emblem of moral seriousness -- not that we are morally serious in fact, but we have fierce political passions for which some kind of public legitimacy is needed."

In a paradoxical way, progressivists' infrequent tactical resort to clerical garb is more "clericalist" than conservatives' day-in day-out use of the same. After all, the conservative can say, "Hey look. I'm a priest around the clock, and I'm just doing what I'm told, just keeping to Canon 284, so I take the multiple headaches along with the occasional advantage that comes with the collar." But the trendy clergyman, who dresses as a layman 99 percent of the time and puts on clerics only as a signal to strangers and only for some tactical advantage, is trading precisely on the moral prestige that society imputes to the clerical caste as a whole. He's saying in effect: "Pay greater attention to my words, because -- when all is said and done -- it's the Church that's speaking." To pull this stunt is to borrow the moral authority that belongs to an institution so as to exploit it for personal gain, and of such is the kingdom of clericalism.

Photo: Le Figaro (AFP/Nackstrand)


TOPICS: Current Events; Mainline Protestant; Moral Issues; Religion & Politics
KEYWORDS: apostacy; churchofsweden; europeanchristians; fauxchristians; gaypride; gaystapo; heresy; homopromo; homosexualagenda; lutheran; sweden

1 posted on 08/05/2007 3:41:51 PM PDT by NYer
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...

The Roman collar - always a fashion statement!


2 posted on 08/05/2007 3:42:58 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: NYer

The Roman collar - always much more than a fashion statement!


3 posted on 08/05/2007 3:55:16 PM PDT by TheGeezer (I.will.never.vote.for.John.McCain.)
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To: Charles Henrickson

Ping to you, sir.


4 posted on 08/05/2007 4:46:15 PM PDT by franksolich (215 down, 515 to go.....)
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To: NYer
And then, finally, there is the public street demonstration, as exemplified in the photo from Stockholm. The marching ministers even put aside their pastel clergy shirts in favor of deadpan Catholic black, lest inattentive spectators mistake them for random amateur cross-dressers. There's a "me too" dimension to their use of the roman collar: "You should take us seriously, because the collar is an emblem of clergyhood and clergyhood an emblem of ecclesial authority and ecclesial authority an emblem of moral seriousness -- not that we are morally serious in fact, but we have fierce political passions for which some kind of public legitimacy is needed."

Of course, the fact that they are women (they are, right?) means that wearing the collar is effectively cross-dressing anyway. News flash--women can't be priests.

Gay Pride ---- "What are two of the seven deadly sins, Alex?"
5 posted on 08/05/2007 8:41:38 PM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off a leftist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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To: Antoninus

Come Sunday morning, everyone in the chancel is wearing dresses anyway. Clergy should wear their clerics when they are going about their business and any color shirt is fine as long as it is black. There are clergy shirts made for men and clergy shirts made for women because both can be priests despite what you think.


6 posted on 08/07/2007 8:59:47 AM PDT by john19
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To: john19
There are clergy shirts made for men and clergy shirts made for women because both can be priests despite what you think.

What I think and what you think on this matter is irrelevant. The Pope has spoken. Women who pretend to be priests are as wacky as I would be if I went around telling people I was pregnant.
7 posted on 08/07/2007 10:18:48 AM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off a leftist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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To: Antoninus

The pope has spoken ex cathedra on the subject? I didn’t realize that was in effect on this issue.
Do you, therefore, deny that Rome has ever had female priests? I am not sure if I would go so far as to say that there haven’t been female priests in the East, but I might be wrong on that, too.
Benedict seemed to recognize Lutheran orders a few years ago with reference to the Sacrament of the Altar and I don’t recall that he attached a gender caveat to that.


8 posted on 08/07/2007 6:14:21 PM PDT by john19
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To: john19
Do you, therefore, deny that Rome has ever had female priests? I am not sure if I would go so far as to say that there haven’t been female priests in the East, but I might be wrong on that, too.

There have never been any licit female priests. There have been a lot of phony-baloney pretenders, but none that were actually recognized as priests by the Church. Nor can there be. If you've got evidence to the contrary, present it.

And no, there have never been in the East either. Only in the wacky Western protestant churches most of which are way past their expiration date anyway.
9 posted on 08/07/2007 7:41:18 PM PDT by Antoninus (P!ss off a leftist wacko . . . have more kids.)
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To: Antoninus

We are certainly entitled to our opinions, however drudely we state them. But I would like you to document the papal decree which you suggested.


10 posted on 08/08/2007 2:15:14 PM PDT by john19
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To: john19

Actually, its doctrine, not dogma. But for Catholics, its a distinction without a difference. When B-16 was pre-16, he corrected one of JP2’s documents prior to publication on this issue (JP2 had called it dogma, pre-16 said it was doctrine). I don’t have it at the ready. Are you Catholic?


11 posted on 08/08/2007 3:11:44 PM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: Patriotic1

As a Lutheran, I consider myself an evangelical catholic. But my point was that an assertion had been made which I believe to be incorrect. You are correct that it may be doctrine and not dogma but I would suggest that the distinction ought be maintained. I would also suggest that it is uncommon for the pope to speak ex cathdera so when it does happen, it ought be duly noted.


12 posted on 08/08/2007 4:08:41 PM PDT by john19
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To: john19

Some orthodox opinion:
http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=509999&Pg=Forum6&Pgnu=1&recnu=1

The actual text:
http://www.ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/JP2ORDIN.HTM

Additional information:

http://www.cuf.org/Faithfacts/details_view.asp?ffID=139

Hope this helps!


13 posted on 08/08/2007 8:30:23 PM PDT by Patriotic1 (Dic mihi solum facta, domina - Just the facts, ma'am)
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To: NYer

bump


14 posted on 08/08/2007 8:32:15 PM PDT by VOA
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To: Patriotic1

As I suspected, the pope offered his opinion. Thanks for the urls.


15 posted on 08/09/2007 10:40:20 AM PDT by john19
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