Posted on 08/01/2007 11:19:04 AM PDT by Salvation
Well, I agree that it would be a fiasco in the media, but somehow, I think that if we had a St. Athanasius clone for an archbishop, he wouldn’t worry about it! He’d look at it as a supreme “teaching moment,” absorbing the losses (hopefully temporary) of those who would side with the liturgical clowns, and bringing back *thousands* of folks who have drifted away over all of the nonsense over the years. Unfortunately, the current AB is more concerned about offending people not even under his charge than he seems to be about potentially miffing heterodox Catholics, so don’t hold your breath for “Athanasius Rides Again” appearing at a theater near you!
The “toss” is the response to “Lift up your hearts.” The people in question quickly raise one or both hands, palms up, into the air over their heads and exclaim “We have LIFTED them up to the Lord!” Yay!
We had about 10 minutes of announcements! People complained because we did them before Mass and people were trying to pray and get ready for Mass so they moved them to the end and pared them down a little.
We have a bulletin!
Good for you!!!
So if love is the most important thing, why is anyone getting indignant when I don’t want to hold hands?
This is a societal thing. We don’t hold hands with those who are not our spouse, children, boyfriend/girlfriend. We don’t stand around holding hands in the grocery store. If you attend a Catholic church in Japan, they do not shake hands but do bow. If you tried to hold hands there, they would run from you.
So here, where we do not hold hands on a regular basis, why would anyone think that it’s acceptable to hold hands? If someone offers you a hand, it is your right to take it or not. If you want to offer, don’t be offended if someone doesn’t take it. If you really love someone, you will accept that Pete in the Pew next to you may not want to hold your hand. Don’t cop an attitude at the Handshake of Peace. You don’t know whether or not that person next to you was abused and can’t stand human touch or is agoraphobic and is just fighting to stay there.
They shouldn't be, no. But many people will assume that you are not willing to hold hands because you don't like them. They will then think (incorrectly, of course) that you're mean or bigoted. We are not in Japan and you generally do not kneel or sing aloud in a grocery store either. So if you are in a church where the holding hands thing is custom, unless you have the disease, fear, etc., it may be kinder to just hold hands and then take it up with the pastor in private.
How about if the people holding hands understand that this is an innovation that should not be done in the liturgy? The instruction to hold hands can not be found in the GIRM. It can’t be found anywhere. Innovation has NO place in our liturgy. Why are we now the “Electric Church” as Mother Angelica put it? Every time you walk in, you get a shock.
To me, it isn’t a matter of kind. That person is intruding on another’s prayer time for a “feel good”. The kindness would come in waiting until the OTHER person held out a hand for you, rather than taking offense from those folded hands.
I don’t find it to be kind to give in. I find it to be a lesson to that person. Handholding is not encouraged in ANY diocese. None. Perhaps doing it right instead of kind would be a better idea.
And perhaps a good way to look at it is this.
Name one other place where you hold hands with strangers.
We kneel and pray in many places
We sing aloud in many more.
But we don’t hold hands with strangers and shouldn’t in Holy Mass.
I was standing with my hands folded, my eyes closed at today’s daily Mass and someone came up beside me and grabbed my hand. Couldn’t glare, yet, because this was my first time. But all of you talked about a print out. Did you use this articles or did you use something from the GIRM or canon law. I want to show them after Mass next time.
Sort of shook me up.
I like this...
“May 23, 2004, 04:50 PM
Karl Keating
President, Catholic Answers Join Date: April 1, 2004
Location: San Diego
Posts: 636
Re: Holding hands at the Lord’s Prayer
In America, we shake hands with one another at the sign of peace. In Japan parishioners bow to one another. In other countries there may be other conventions.
At the sign of peace we’re saying “I’m at peace with you” or “I feel reconciled to you.” We convey that through words (”The peace of Christ be with you”) and through an action that is friendly but not intimate or intrusive (since most of those around us likely will be strangers).
This act of demonstrating reconciliation is undermined by holding hands at the Our Father. That prayer comes immediately before the sign of peace. In those parishes where people hold hands during that prayer, they are engaging in an action that is much more intimate than a handshake.
If we hold hands during the Our Father, it undercuts the significance of the following act, since holding hands trumps shaking hands. The sign of peace withers. A prescribed part of the liturgy (the sign of peace) loses much of its significance (much of its “sign value”) when parishioners hold hands at the Our Father.
(It’s good to say “I love you” to your spouse, but if you say that to everyone you meet on the street, your spouse will feel your words have been devalued.)
Another point: In our culture, hand-holding is approved of when adults hold the hands of young children, when boyfriend and girlfriend hold hands, and when married couples hold hands (though this commonly stops a few weeks after the honeymoon ).
We do not hold hands with strangers to whom we are introduced. We shake hands instead. Holding hands in such a situation would be perceived as too intimate. And in some cases, holding hands even suggests something unsavory, as when we see two men holding hands as they walk down the sidewalk.
Can anyone think of any situation, other than at the Our Father during Mass, in which people commonly hold hands with strangers? I can’t, and I think there is a reason: Hand holding is a sign of a certain intimacy. It’s not something we take lightly.
To hold hands with strangers at Mass strikes me as artificial, and it has become a detriment to a proper appreciation of the liturgy. Yes, it is easy enough to avoid, but I think it remains a problem. It is one kind of problem for those who don’t wish to hold hands, and it is another kind of problem (the problem of not understanding the role of signs in the Mass) for those who like the practice.”
But most of all, ask for documentation from your Diocese or the Vatican Encouraging Handholding. There is none.
I sometimes stay kneeling just to make it so no one will try to hold my hand. I do this because it is easier than saying no to a hand holder. At Sunday mass no one kneels except for a few rebels once in a while (including me). So you have to say no on join the group. I pland to bring some of these issues up the next time I go to confession. This lack of reverency for the liturgy makes mass uneasy, and for the wrong reasons. These issues are the last things that I should have in my thoughts during mass. Many of the problems I see are practices that were part of the non-Catholic church I use to attend before I converted, including the “toss!”
>>Many of the problems I see are practices that were part of the non-Catholic church I use to attend before I converted, including the “toss!”<<
REALLY!
When I used to state that these practices were from Protestant churches, people told me I was nuts, including my ex-Presbyterian hubby.
Really, all of them, they really are big believers of the hand hold. They like to raise thier hands as well.
Amazing!
Protestant Church, A.A. meetings, 18th century dance re-enanctment dancing. It's not common, but it happens.
We entered the Catholic Church with fear and trembling, NOT over the theology but over the music. Coming from the Episcopalians, who may be screaming heretics but have impeccable taste in liturgical music, we were prepared to shoulder our cross because of course music (while important) pales in comparison with Belief.
But once we got in we got heavily involved in the choir and before we knew it the old Haugen-Haasish director had taken a job at a more "happening" parish where things other than the music were less "old fashioned", and I volunteered for the music director search committee . . . . and before we knew it we had a serious musician who believes in chant and polyphony (and he plays the organ like an angel).
With a rector like that, I think it's only a matter of time before the music takes a significant change for the better. With the aid of H.H. BXVI's splendid essay on the liturgy and music, I bet you could gather a few like-minded musical folks and persuade the rector that introducing traditionalism should include music written by Actual Catholics who Appreciate the Musical Patrimony of the Church . . . . the Chant of the Ordinary of the Mass would be nicely complemented by hymns from the Adoremus hymnal and some polyphonic motets for offertory and communion . . .
A question for you??
Who decided to change your hymnals then? I pray for the day, but there is no way I can get involved. But I am passing your post on to someone who can. (Has a daughter who plays the organ!)
I would like to see something like "Strip the Willow" in church . . . not! THAT would be some 'liturgical dance'! It's like bouncing down a corridor with heavy weights tied to your arms, as G. M. Fraser remarked in The General Danced at Dawn.
This is great — thanks.
The choir director selects the hymns and prints up a music sheet for each service. He pulls them from various hymnals, including Adoremus and the 1940 edition of the St. Gregory's Hymnal (the whole choir has those). He occasionally has to toss in "Weagle's Ings" or "Here I Am Lord, Here's Your Pizza" to mollify the old retired hippies in the parish, but he's trying to wean them and it seems to be working.
Until we get the hippies stabilized, there would be a lot of resistance to a traditional hymnal.
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