Posted on 08/01/2007 11:19:04 AM PDT by Salvation
Oh, and BTW — I wonder where you saw those abuses in Boston. I live in Boston (Southie) and I’ve really only gone to Mass in Southie or Arch Street (before the new rector) and never saw anything like that.
Now...when he eliminates the Schutz, Haas, Haagen music I will register as a parishioner...
...I too believe that the Gloria, the Sanctus and the Agnus Dei should be recited in Latin...I do so myself, every week...but I have to take issue with the constant bashing of these three poor songsmiths...perhaps they represent all that we hate in the N.O., and maybe they aren’t Catholic, but at least they are writing songs commemorating our faith...there’s plenty of terrible music out there to complain about...someone writing a heartfelt song about divine faith should not feel our venom...
I’ll bet you’d guess where most of them were if you thought a minute. Scroll down slowly for hints till you get it!
1980’s
Downtown
Park Street
Yep...it’s the Paulist Center!
Thank you for correcting the read. I apologize for not reading what the author wrote more diligently.
Visitors to Ireland sometimes wear cowboy boots. Leprechauns know they are very valuable on the “short market” as we have no snakes in Ireland.
;-o)
Unfortunately, my husband’s a bad example on this, as he is on the wearing of shorts. One can’t have anything ...)...
...shorts!!! “Streng Verboten” as Humbert Humbert says in ‘Lolita’...
Well, the way I remember this might be a bit hazy these days, since it’s been so long since I even *hoped* the RSV-CE might be used, but I recall it was “approved” for use by the USCCB, and this was seconded by Rome. Perhaps it was directly authorized by Rome, I’m not sure. I’m at work, so I have limited resources here to verify this one way or the other.
“For thine is the kingdom, the power and the glory....” deal. We look stupid...
...couldn’t possibly agree more...and while we’re at it, was is the purpose of our repeating the above doxology, insasmuch as it’s the KJV translation of inferior Greek texts...IIRC it was inserted into the Mass for ecumenical purposes, so as not to have two differing Lord’s Prayer in the English speaking world...I could do without it...
I know, but if I say anything, he’s in a snit for the rest of the day. The best I can do is make sure the children are decently dressed if they’re going to Mass with me.
I would never have gone to the Paulist Center for fulfilling my Sunday obligation. For that, I would go to the Melkites in Roslindale (Before I started going to the TLM at Holy Trinity in 1990). No, I went to the PC (how apt!) to document the abuses there. I went over and over because I was a glutton for punishment back then, and because I thought something might eventually come of my letters to the chancery about these things. Not much came of them, as far as I know. Oh, well, at least they were obliged to stop the most egregious abuses as part of the fallout when Law caught up with them on their invalid baptism scandal back in the ‘90’s.
I'm unfamiliar with the baptism scandal -- could you fill me in?
exactly! Usually its the "but VAtican II said...." crowd that gets into a temper tantraum when you argue with them. When I went through RCIA a few years ago at my parish, one woman who helped from time to time used to get very angry when I would bring up abuses as though I was a heretic.
With all due respect, I know we can introduce better music into the liturgy. Some we have had for a long time, some has yet to be written.
We should not completely and utterly reject the music of Schutte, Haugen, Haas, et. al. (in cases where there is nothing opposed to the Faith) for exactly the reason you say... there is an honest expression of faith. That said, it is my opinion that their place is not in the Liturgy. The status quo should not become the enemy of the better only because "it's easier" and "it's what everyone is used to."
No venom... It's just my opinion that it's time to move beyond them at Mass.
Well, they might own or lease the buildings, but the AB could always withdraw their faculties (I believe Law threatened them with just that in the baptism affair). That would put them in a real bind, and if they flouted the AB’s authority, Rome would get *quickly* involved. Only one side could win this type of dispute...
Anyway, as far as the baptism issue is concerned, back in the 90’s, there was one priest there who did *at least* a couple of hundred baptisms using the ol’ “Creator, Redeemer and Sanctifier” bit for the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. That, of course, is a big no-no, and renders the whole baptism invalid. The pre-baptism catechesis he provided was pretty shaky, too. When word got to the chancery about this, evidently the cardinal didn’t like the way the Paulists wanted to handle the situation, and he took personal charge of its remedy. He ordered the priest to personally track down every family involved, and inform them that they neded to rebaptize their child(ren), specifically pointing out why they weren’t baptized yet. He ordered the Paulists to ensure that such things didn’t recur, and took the opportunity at that time to insist on the ending of the liturgical gymnastics going on there.
My understanding is that this fiasco didn’t end all that well. Some people could not be reached, as they had since moved. Many, being, after all, liberal Catholics, were offended at the notion that the baptisms didn’t “take,” and blew-off the need for baptizing their kids again. The priest was ordered to keep trying, but, unfortunately, many just weren’t reachable. But there were some, at least, who were found and took the necessary steps all over again. God only knows how many of those kids and adults are out there thinking they’ve been baptized when, in fact, they aren’t at all. The only thing they have going for them is the fact that, while god is the Author of the Sacraments, He is not bound by them.
For the other, I'm afraid really bearing down on them would become a fiasco -- the Globe, e.g., and John Kerry (who is an ass, of course, but one with influence) would definitely side with the PC, as would VOTF and others. There are already movements afoot (again and seemingly stronger than in the past) to get rid of the Church's tax exemption and I believe Catholic hospitals lost their fight for exemption from providing the abortion pill in rape cases. Non-Catholics and fallen-away Catholics would immediate think of the abuse scandal and tend to side with the PC. I think it would be disastrous in many ways.
I could be wrong of course. In any case, it's academic, since it's not the sort of thing the archdiocese in interested in quashing -- that's reserved for the TLM!
The PC should have been sat on 40 years ago -- maybe even 30 years ago, it would have been doable.
I am so blessed to be a member of a parish that treats the Mass and Real Presence with such reverence. The priests have a true reverance for the Eucharist. The priests also preach saying the rosary, going to confession, and prayer. They offer confession every day and before every Mass. I credit my reversion in part to this parish.
The only “abuse” that I’ve noticed is the holding hands during the Our Father. It is not encouraged nor discouraged by the clergy and it doesn’t compare, IMHO with stuff like dancing or altering the creed. It probably grew out from families holding hands during the Our Father as a sign of love.
One last point. The pastor, who has a doctorate in eccleisastical history, informed me that during the earliest church, members received in the hands. That said, they do not discourage any way, and some people even receive kneeling at the rail, which the priests graciously take the time to distribute. The line for the rail sometimes is quite long.
Gentle point on hand holding, hugging, etc.: Love is the most important thing. The person attempting the hug or hand holding Our Father doesn’t know canon law. Pulling away from them will confuse or bewilder them. I’m not expert, but....
What is the toss?
No, but you're very kind-hearted. Even if you should take it upon yourself to correct them (and you're not their pastor), I doubt that the middle of Mass is the time to do it. A friend in college once said that she always assumed other people were doing the best they could at the time. Worth thinking about.
I haven't had to deal with it -- I sit way up front, and most of my parish belongs in the old bus-driver joke: "Why don't you people pretend you're in church and everyone crowd to the back?" ;-)
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