Posted on 07/23/2007 3:36:15 PM PDT by annalex
Sunday, July 22, 2007
As a young Catholic I was unaware of the amount of irrational hatred that was directed toward the Catholic Church and Catholics themselves. Growing up in Los Angeles I was not subject to the Fundamentalist “tracts” being placed on my family car while we were at Mass as I would have been had I lived in the “Bible Belt”. My exposure to people of other faiths was frequent and always positive. The majority of my friends growing were Jewish as were the girls whom I had the honor of dating. My babysitter growing up was Mormon, as was my Paternal Grandfather. My Paternal Grandmother is a Methodist and my Father was an atheist for most of his life. My Maternal Grandfather was a Presbyterian from a family that produced many deacons. However, my Maternal Grandmother was an Irish Catholic and thus my Mother was a Catholic and therefore we were raised Catholic. None of this was seen as a conflict. None of the above people in my family ever acted as though anything was “wrong” with my siblings and I being raised Catholic.
In my college years I essentially fell away from the faith. I still called myself a “Catholic” but had no particular belief in any of the dogmas that makes one a Catholic. I just knew that I was of Irish ancestry and thus was “Catholic”. My beliefs were for the most part agnostic. I thought that true believers were absurd (I included both theist and atheist true believers as absurd).
While in college I heard all about how the Catholic Church was responsible for the Dark Ages, the destruction of the Native Peoples of the Americas, the Holocaust, the Inquisition, pimples on teenagers, Milli-Vanilli and just about everything else that negatively effected anyone anywhere at anytime everywhere. I learned how peaceful and wonderful Muslim societies were and how Christians lived very well under Islamic rule. And how the Crusades were an evil move by a corrupt Pope to throw off that wonderful balance and have a huge land grab for greedy Churchman and Nobles. I heard how nothing good happened in the Christian world and no good men were produced in the Christian world until Marin Luther and later "the Enlightenment". I look back now and marvel at how I remained a Catholic even if it was in name only. All my history professors with their fancy PhDs thought Catholicism was a force for evil in the Western World who was I to disagree? Of course I just went along and got good grades and degrees not really challenging the idiocy that I was being taught.
There I was just a young guy going through life not contemplating the great issues of life and certainly not contemplating being a Catholic when I had the misfortune to meet a Rabbi that was a friend of my wife’s family. During our discussion, the rabbi told me about things that Christians “buy into” like the Trinity and the fact that Jesus was God. I was told that I could never understand Jews and their suffering at the hands of Catholics. I was told that I “would never know what it is to be a Jew or how it feels to have your children forced to sing Christmas carols (oh the horror! the horror!)”. I would never know what it is like to look at someone like me and see the Inquisition and the Crusades. Now, anyone who is not a self absorbed bigot would know that talking to a person who is half Irish and Catholic knows a little something of prejudice and persecution. My ancestors could not own land in their own country. They had to pay taxes to a foreign English master and support his foreign Church that was a parasite on their own land. They had real persecution. If they could have gotten off with simply singing Church of Ireland songs rather than pay taxes to and be persecuted by the British, I'm sure they would have gladly accepted. But why look past ones on victim-hood in order to see truth, when victim-hood is so much more of a commodity in our modern society.
At that point I made a commitment to understand my faith. I would never let someone attack the beliefs of my ancestors as this rabbi did without making a strong defense. My ancestors were willing to be persecuted (the real kind of persecution not the Christmas Carol kind) rather than abandon their faith. The least I could do is understand what they found so important as to endure what they did. Thus starting my journey toward becoming a passionate believer. The irony of a anti-Catholic bigoted rabbi bringing me closer to the truth of Christ is absolutely wonderful.
I started reading books by the usual authors that are sold at Borders and Barnes & Noble like George Weigel. While informative they were, upon reflection, very superficial. However, I happened upon a book called “Catholicism verses Fundamentalism” by Karl Keating. I thought it was simply going to be an analysis of Catholic beliefs versus Fundamentalist beliefs. What I had purchased was a wonderful combination of satire and apologetics. It has become the definitive apologetics book produced in the last 30 years. The title of the book itself mocks Jimmy Swaggarts silly book “Catholicism and Christianity”. Throughout the book I was baptized by fire into the world of anti-Catholicism. I learned about such Fundamentalist writers and “thinkers” as Lorraine Boettner, Alexander Hislop, Jimmy Swaggart, Jack Chick and others. Keating dismantled their arguments so thoroughly that one wonders how these people are not all routinely dismissed even by honest Fundamentalists. Sadly, low rent bigots like Hislop, Boettner and Dave Hunt are still widely read in Fundamentalist circles. Swaggart has fallen out of favor as we all know. Keating opened up a new door to me. I now was ready for the next step and started buying every book by Chesterton and Belloc I could find as they are the greatest apologists for the Catholic faith in the last 100 years.
The Holy Spirit has a funny way of working. I became friends with a wonderful guy who happens to be a Fundamentalist Christian. As we would talk he would mention some of the things that Keating talked about in his book. I was informed that Peter never went to Rome and that the Church was founded by Constantine the Great, and that Easter is really “Ishtar” and other scholarly insights that occupy the minds of Fundamentalist writers. I was told all about Catholicism and how it is really just paganism re-written. To his and most Fundamentalists credit, they literally do not know they are repeating lies. These books are sold at Protestant Book Stores and Churches. Also, he informed me of these things out of love as he believed my soul was in peril. So he could not process the refutations that I would make to him and just go on to the next attack. Most Catholics know about this tactic that Fundamentalists use. They will tell us what we believe and how stupid we are for believing it. 99% of the time they are wrong. The problem is that they have been told by Dave Hunt (his bio is from "rapture ready") or James White that the Calumnies that they are stating are Gospel truth.
After a while I began to pick up more and more apologetics material to refute my friends claims. I also decided that I would no longer play defense with him. I would attack his belief in sola scriptura (scripture alone) and sola fide (faith alone). When I would press him and ask about where those teachings are found in the Bible he would have no answer. This lead to his anger that I was asking too much to show me where the Bible taught either one of those Protestant Traditions (Traditions of men, not of God I might add). I would also repeat what he would say to me but re-phrase it to see if he really was willing to stand by it. For instance, he once told me that he was passionately anti-Catholic. I responded “Really? So if I were Jewish would it be okay for you to tell me that you are passionately anti-Jew?” He was taken aback and responded “Of course not!” I then responded “I guess some hatred is acceptable while others is not”. His response….silence. And then move on to the next attack. That is generally the tactic of the anti-Catholic. Never acknowledge that they are wrong, just move on to the next attack until they find something that the Catholic cannot answer. Usually it ends with some obscure Pope from the 7th century that no one knows about.
Anti-Catholicism rots the mind. It blinds people and they become obsessed with the destruction of something that they cannot destroy. People have been trying for 2000 years. Churchmen like Roger Mahoney have done their best. But the Gates of Hell will not prevail against it. So this leads to desperation. Which then leads to all kinds of ridiculous theories and outright lies about what Catholics believe and do. It does not stop with Fundamentalist Christians though. Before we think “well that’s just those weird bible-thumpers” let’s examine some things that people just “know”.
People "just know" that the Catholic Church did nothing in the Americas but persecute the indigenous people and massacre them. We "just know" that Priests never stood up to the Spaniards. Of course this is untrue. It is true that there were Catholic Priests who conducted themselves terribly during colonial times. However, it was Catholic Priests who sought to make life better for the indigenous people. Jesuits armed Indians against the Spanish in Paraguay, Francisco de Vittoria pleaded with the Spanish King in defense of the Indians. Most people in the Americas have never heard of Bartoleme de las Casas. Las Casas, a Spanish Dominican Priest has been called the Father of anti-imperialism and anti-racism. There is also Antonio Montesino who was the first person, in 1511, to denounce publicly in America the enslavement and oppression of the Indians as sinful and disgraceful to the Spanish nation. There of course were villains in the Spanish system but so were there in the American and English systems that were dominated by Protestants. We don’t hear about the brutality of Protestant lands in the US. We hear about those backward Spanish Catholics (who built the first Universities in the Americas) but not about the theocratic police state established in Geneva by John Calvin or the massacres carried out by Anabaptists in Munster.
In some cases anti-Catholicism is not only profitable it can allow for common bullies to slander and desecrate the memory of men finer than themselves without repercussions. Take the case of Daniel Goldhagen. He has made a career out of slandering the Catholic Church. Commenting on Mr. Goldhagens slanderous book A Moral Reckoning, Rabbi David Dalin, described Goldhagens work as "failing to meet even the minimum standards of scholarship.” He went on to say “That the book has found its readership out in the fever swamps of anti-Catholicism isn't surprising. But that a mainstream publisher like Knopf would print the thing is an intellectual and publishing scandal." This statement is absolutely correct. Let us be honest though, Goldhagen simply represents the double-standard that exists in our society. He is a left wing Jew who attacks the only group that it is acceptable to attack in modern American society, the evil Catholics. If a right wing Catholic were to make his living by attacking Judaism and slandering a prominent rabbi while blaming Judaism for the Marxist massacres under the NKVD he would be an out of work “conspiracy kook” and a anti-Semite. He would certainly not be published in the New Republic. Goldhagen has made the absurd statement that Christianity is anti-Semitic at its core. Imagine if one were to say that Judaism is anti-Gentile to its core. They would be isolated as an anti-Semite. The message is clear. A Jewish bigot like Goldhagen gets published by Knopf and the New Republic while his mirror image would be isolated and vilified.
I would like to wrap up with some other observations. All Catholics are told endless stories about Catholics persecuting people. Generally it starts with a Catholic King who orders the persecution of a group and despite the Bishops or Pope condemning it, "the Catholics" are to blame. An example of his would be during the Crusades when Crusaders massacred Jews along the Rhine. That was “the Catholics” despite the local Bishops hiding and protecting Jews. When a Protestant barbarian like Oliver Cromwell slaughters Catholics at Drogheda and sells the women and children into sex slavery or sacks Wexford that’s not “the Protestants”. That’s just Cromwell.
Much is made about Hitler being a baptized Catholic by ignoramuses like Dave Hunt. Other bigots like Goldhagen argue that Nazism was an extension of Catholic bigotry through the ages. Yet these people do not mention that Karl Marx was a Jew and that the ranks of the NKVD, some of the greatest murderers of all time, were filled with Jews. By using Goldhagens logic should we not attack Judaism and Jews? If we Catholics are and our faith are responsible for a former Catholic who later went so far as to persecute the Church, should not Jews be held responsible for Karl Marx and Genrikh Yagoda and the fact that some of greatest murderers of modern times were Jewish. The answer is of course not. Your Jewish neighbor has likely not heard of the NKVD, Yagoda let alone support what he and they did.
As I wrap up my thoughts on this I should say thank you to all of the people that I mention above. Especially the Rabbi who started my journey. Had he not been a self absorbed bigot, he would not have angered me and I would not have explored my own faith. I would have continued in my ignorance and would not have understood the faith that built Western Civilization and sustained my ancestors. I would not have understood the faith that Christ taught to the Apostles, that was passed on to their successors, our Bishops. I would not truly know the joy of being a Catholic. His ignorant statements brought about my reversion back to the true faith and my wife’s conversion to it. For that, I will literally be eternally indebted to him.
Did I not explain this in my earlier post? There are Orthodox Jewish evolutionists and Orthodox Jewish creationists. There are even evolutionists in traditional Yeshivish Orthodoxy and creationists in Modern Orthodoxy! But there is no Orthodox Jewish "pope," so the situation is more similar to Protestantism than to Catholicism.
it is Catholics who are supposed to have absolute unity with a single authority
Yes, but this singleness of authority does not preclude leaving things undecided and open to interpretation. Since evolution is not expressly contradicted in the Bible either, it is one of these things where considerable freedom of conscience exists for Catholics. We think it is a good thing.
How does the Bible not contradict evolution? What about mankind being immortal prior to the first sin? Doesn't evolution require generations and generations of death? For that matter, how do we know what the world was like when it was first created? The Biblical text tells us of certain cataclysmic events (the Flood, the Dispersion) after which the world deteriorated. Evolution is based on a uniformitarian view of the world that contradicts the Biblical text. So how can you say that evolution does not contradict Scripture? What is your position on the early generations and the weekly Shabbat being a weekly anniversary of the seventh day when G-d rested? Are you going to claim that evolution is completely harmonious with these things?
And the point I was trying to make was that your Church, with its "one faith" and its teaching authority, seems to have more disagreements and divergences of opinion than Fundamentalist Protestant denominations who disagree on many different things but all recognize that evolution is contradictory to the message of the Bible?
It seems as if the only thing your authority exists for is to leave things open that would otherwise be shut by a simple belief in the total inerrancy of the Biblical text.
BTW, someone on this forum actually asked me if such defenses of evolution from a Catholic perspective were something I was making up!
So you're saying that creationism is inherently Protestant? How so?
Was Bellarmine a "protestant" when he argued against Galileo?
The medals "act". How so I wonder
Read post 316.
It’s from your reference. You can continue to make assumptions from what you see or hear. How about some facts instead?
And as for a reminder of religious affiliation, it’s for you, babe, not for me. Shows I am Catholic. I know I am.
Why don’t you go back to YOUR reference and read it?
Why couldn't the largest, most powerful, and most respected church in the world do the same thing without having to be all things to all people?
What exactly would you like the Church to do? They provide us with what we must do to remain within orthodoxy. If we choose not to do that is not the Churches fault.
Any church that can rule millenialism out of bounds can rule evolution out of bounds. Also, any church that can officially endorse transubstantiation can endorse the creation of the world in six days as opposed to the universe forming "naturally" over billions of years.
Would such a thing be too much to ask?
As to the interpretation of the quote from the Catechism, I have seen it used in just that way, and so have creationist Catholics who find themselves wishing the wording were not so clumsy and slippery. Have you never heard a bishop or read an book with the imprimatur that invoked that passage to say that only soteriological matters are inerrant? I certainly have.
But the reality goes deeper. The medals also represent a trust in the intercession of our patron saints. They are a constant prayer to that Saint for help from above. They show a certain humility (we can’t do it alone) and a desire for help from our patron Saint. This is faith in action – a faith that understands the need for spiritual help in the world. As the article cited above notes: But if our souls are disposed toward God, then medals can prepare us to receive grace. When we look at the image on a medal, not only are we reminded of the love and protection of that holy person, but we open ourselves to the grace to follow that person’s example. No one knew better about putting faith into action than Mother Teresa of Calcutta, who was fond of handing out Miraculous Medals to everyone she met!
Yes, which is why I wonder why you need an object to remind you
And.....
No. I'm referring to the specifically American form that developed in the 20th century. As I said earlier, there is a philosophical form of creationism that can be seen clearly in Aquinas, and is thoroughly Catholic. But it looks nothing like the sort advanced by Gish and Ham.
Was Bellarmine a "protestant" when he argued against Galileo?
No, of course not.
-A8
No matter how hard you try, you’re not gonna make it evil.
But I’ve gotta give ya credit for tenacity.
You are throwing out a number of things here. I don't care to get sucked into a tangent of Transubstantiation or Millienialism. What you are asking the Church to do is to define things the way you want them defined. It doesn't work like that.
I think not.
I have actually used some of these verses before when confronted by a vehement non denominational ranting that EVERYTHING in THE BIBLE is LITERALLY TRUE!!!!!
I have sat in a conservative Church of Christ where the preacher thundered on about the literal truth of the Bible. I have heard the Pentacostals. I even had a SoBap boss invite me to a church picnic and since I was the only Catholic there, I was cordially put on the spot as to theologies and what we believed about the Bible, versus what they believed. So no, I don’t believe that this is out of line, especially in the context that I have experienced.
Yes I do, thanks for asking, and if you do even a superficial review of the prayers, you'll see that the Saints are asked "for" their prayers and are not prayer "to".
Do you ever ask loved ones to pray for you?
Wow! How bout those pesky statues of cherubim that God had placed in the Temple.....
Idols! ;-)
God should be ashamed.
Wow, check it out. God says that "you shall make" golden statues of cherbim. :) He must be a Papist....
Icons were developed for the illiterate converts who were obviously unable to take notes. They go back to the first century. One Orthodox site I was on a while ago claimed that both the Evangelist Luke and the Apostle Luke painted (or formed) icons. I’ll try to find it again.
Wonderful!
Thanks!
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