Posted on 07/23/2007 3:36:15 PM PDT by annalex
Certainly; I find that I keep going back to stouts and porters if I want a good tasting brew.
Back in my (far) younger days, I really enjoyed a good rye whisky (Alberta Premium Rye Whisky was my favourite).
LOL!
It is good for all to pray to Mary so that she shows you a way to Jesus. It is certainly more important that studying the Catechism. However, if you have the mind to object to what the Church teaches, then a good start for you would be to study the Catechism. If you are not sure why you should pray to Mary, de Montfort is a good source of knowledge.
Refer instead to the Catholic CAtechism, not to some random works by de Montfort —> the post you state is NOT Catholic official dogma.
Yes, it's the old 'Hey Catholic let me tell you what you believe and why you are an idiot for believing it.' All the while the Prot is either wrong or lying...so who's the idiot??
Exactly! Because as De Montfort says:
2. Because Mary remained hidden during her life she is called by the Holy Spirit and the Church "Alma Mater", Mother hidden and unknown. So great was her humility that she desired nothing more upon earth than to remain unknown to herself and to others, and to be known only to God.
3. In answer to her prayers to remain hidden, poor and lowly, God was pleased to conceal her from nearly every other human creature in her conception, her birth, her life, her mysteries, her resurrection and assumption. Her own parents did not really know her; and the angels would often ask one another, "Who can she possibly be?", for God had hidden her from them, or if he did reveal anything to them, it was nothing compared with what he withheld.
Read what popes say about De Montfort and it makes your attempt to retreat seem pretty hollow.
If those most respected in my group, so respected as to be called "God among us" and "Christ's vicar" and "the head of the church" went on pilgrimages to the grave of someone that said that, I'd pretty much have my orders wouldn't I? Christians don't honor heretics but great teachers. You can't have it both ways.
de Montford is NOT Catholic dogma, and what you stated is not Catholic teaching, so you are reverting to the stereotypical Catholic baiter who says "you Catholics do . You say you don't? No, you don't know what you believe in, I say you . Stop trying to argue, I know better than you what you know and what you believe in. You believe in . Never heard of that and that you Catholics believe in that? See -- you Catholics yourselves don't know that you believe in . So, now listen to me, I'm telling you that you Catholics believe in -- I know better than you what you know"
The behavior of your popes toward De Montfort is very much like the behavior of Obama to Jeramiah Wright. You can't deny the doctrine when you have the associations for 20 years or much more in the case of Popes honoring De Montfort.
Don't you understand? It's not whether it's true or false, it's the seriousness of the charge.
your comparison is disingenous -- honouring a Holy man, does not equate to saying that his teachings are Church doctrine.
You've just proven my point.
Let me give a fuller quote:
1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.2. Because Mary remained hidden during her life she is called by the Holy Spirit and the Church "Alma Mater", Mother hidden and unknown. So great was her humility that she desired nothing more upon earth than to remain unknown to herself and to others, and to be known only to God.
3. In answer to her prayers to remain hidden, poor and lowly, God was pleased to conceal her from nearly every other human creature in her conception, her birth, her life, her mysteries, her resurrection and assumption. Her own parents did not really know her; and the angels would often ask one another, "Who can she possibly be?", for God had hidden her from them, or if he did reveal anything to them, it was nothing compared with what he withheld.
4. God the Father willed that she should perform no miracle during her life, at least no public one, although he had given her the power to do so. God the Son willed that she should speak very little although he had imparted his wisdom to her.
Even though Mary was his faithful spouse, God the Holy Spirit willed that his apostles and evangelists should say very little about her and then only as much as was necessary to make Jesus known.
5. Mary is the supreme masterpiece of Almighty God and he has reserved the knowledge and possession of her for himself. She is the glorious Mother of God the Son who chose to humble and conceal her during her lifetime in order to foster her humility. He called her "Woman" as if she were a stranger, although in his heart he esteemed and loved her above all men and angels. Mary is the sealed fountain and the faithful spouse of the Holy Spirit where only he may enter. She is the sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe, not excluding his dwelling above the cherubim and seraphim. No creature, however pure, may enter there without being specially privileged.
[...]
18. God the Son came into her virginal womb as a new Adam into his earthly paradise, to take his delight there and produce hidden wonders of grace. God-made-man found freedom in imprisoning himself in her womb. He displayed power in allowing himself to be borne by this young maiden. He found his glory and that of his Father in hiding his splendours from all creatures here below and revealing them only to Mary. He glorified his independence and his majesty in depending upon this lovable virgin in his conception, his birth, his presentation in the temple, and in the thirty years of his hidden life. Even at his death she had to be present so that he might be united with her in one sacrifice and be immolated with her consent to the eternal Father, just as formerly Isaac was offered in sacrifice by Abraham when he accepted the will of God. It was Mary who nursed him, fed him, cared for him, reared him, and sacrificed him for us. The Holy Spirit could not leave such wonderful and inconceivable dependence of God unmentioned in the Gospel, though he concealed almost all the wonderful things that Wisdom Incarnate did during his hidden life in order to bring home to us its infinite value and glory. Jesus gave more glory to God his Father by submitting to his Mother for thirty years than he would have given him had he converted the whole world by working the greatest miracles. How highly then do we glorify God when to please him we submit ourselves to Mary, taking Jesus as our sole model.
Very insightful. Agree or disagree, this is wonderful writing that should inspire reflection in any Christian.
True generally, but regarding de Montfort, it is not enough to simply point out that what he says isn't dogmatic. St. Louis has to be defended on his own merits, because he did an excellent job deepening and explaining mariology. I wish more people read him.
How can it be wonderful if it's not true?
I do too. I think it would push a lot of RCs out and those that were in would be more distinct from biblical Christians.
De Montfort is not untrue. It is allowed thinking in Catholicism, but at the same time one is free to disagree with him in some parts. Generally, it will be good for the Church to develop deeper marian devotions, and also differentiate herself better from Protestant heresies. This might pose a challenge to the faith of many, indeed, but no one said truth is easy. Anyone who wants easy theology can go join the Episcopalians.
***your comparison is disingenous — honouring a Holy man, does not equate to saying that his teachings are Church doctrine.***
Of course, when one has little comprehension or understanding of Church history, taking snippets of information out of context is as easy as taking snippets of Scripture out of context.
These folks don’t seem to realize that Augustine spent 30 years in heresy and both Origen and Tertullian were great theologians before they slipped away and were lost in heresy.
I’ve read de Montfort. While it did not do much for me it certainly did not cause me to ponder leaving Christ and his Church. Certainly not for something like Protestantism. Any movement that has an absurd belief like Sola Scriptura, that doesn’t come out of the Bible has no appeal to me. Frankly, if I were a Prot I would cease obsessing about, lying about and distorting the views of Catholics and worry about the Rapture bunnies and other nuts from within your own ‘movement’.
DeMontfort begins with fairy tale and progresses into full blown idolatry.
"1. It was through the Blessed Virgin Mary that Jesus came into the world, and it is also through her that he must reign in the world.
5. Mary is the supreme masterpiece of Almighty God and he has reserved the knowledge and possession of her for himself.
He called her "Woman" as if she were a stranger, although in his heart he esteemed and loved her above all men and angels. She is the sanctuary and resting-place of the Blessed Trinity where God dwells in greater and more divine splendour than anywhere else in the universe, not excluding his dwelling above the cherubim and seraphim. No creature, however pure, may enter there without being specially privileged.
She is the magnificence of the Almighty where he hid his only Son,"
It goes on and on and on. I love reading it because it lays bare the idolatry behind Marianism.
As I mentioned before, no pagan every worshipped the Goddess with such eloquence De Montfort's worship of Mary.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.