Jesus was Roman Catholic?
Prediction: This topic will be shifted to Religion from News/Activism
bump for later... this is gonna get nasty
http://www.lcms.org/ca/www/cyclopedia/02/display.asp?t1=C&word=CHURCH
Church.
1. The word “church” is commonly applied to the whole number of true believers, the communion of saints, the invisible ch. of Christ; any particular denomination of Christian people; particular congs. of any Christian denomination; the religious establishment of any particular nation or govt. (e.g., Ch. of Eng.); the sum total of the various Christian denominations in a country; and the house of Christian worship.
2. Biblical meaning. The word “church” is derived from the Gk. kyriakos, “of, or belonging to, the Lord.” In the OT 2 words were used for the idea of assembly: edah and qahal (Lv 4:13, 14; cf. Heb 12:23). In the NT the term is ekklesia, derived from ekkalein, “call out”; hence the term describing the town meeting of the Gk. city is transferred to the gathering of those who have been summoned by the call of God and His Spirit to belong to His people in Christ (Eph 1:22, 23; 4:1–6). The 80-plus instances of the term in the NT designate the body of all believers in all the world, or the believers gathered in a particular place (e.g., Gl 1:2; “ch. in the house” Cl 4:15; Ro 16:5). In no case is the term used of gatherings in which also unbelievers are essentially numbered, unless Rv 2–3 is so interpreted. The picture of the ch. used by Paul (cf. 1 Co 12; Eph 4:1–16; Ro 12:4–18; 14:1; 15:1) and probably implied by Jesus (Mt 25:31–46), that the mems. of the ch. are the body of Christ on earth, stresses that they stand in a functional relation toward each other, namely that they “edify” (1 Co 14:26; Eph 4:12) or build up one another in faith for life. This mutual relation is termed koinonia (“sharing”) and involves mutual care expressed in forgiveness and admonition (cf. Mt 18; Eph 5:19, 20), the Lord’s Supper (1 Co 10:16, 17), and care for physical need (2 Co 8:4). The breaking of this mutual activity receives vivid rebuke (Ro 16:17, 18; 3 Jn 9–11). Other analogies for the ch. stress that it is the place where God is worshiped (Eph 2:19–22), the means by which God is glorified to the world (1 Ptr 2; Ph 2:14–16).
3. Visible and invisible. In reaction to RC stress on the political quality of the ch. in its submission to the pope, the concepts of “visible” and “invisible” ch. were developed, though the terms are not in the Bible and the Luth. confessions. The term “invisible” is a useful adjective for the ch., if it denies a political essence to the ch. (Ap VII and VIII, 23–28), reminds of the worldwide community in which true Christians should live together, and denotes God’s own recognition of each believer (2 Ti 2:19); it is harmful if it makes of “church” an abstract idea without counterpart in fact (Ap VII and VIII, 20) or allows the assumption that a perfect unity already exists that does not need the careful ministry of every mem. of the ch. (cf. Eph 4:1–16). The term “visible” is useful if it sets up a sphere of activity in which Christians genuinely labor for each other and in witness to their world; it is harmful if activism is allowed to replace Word and Sacrament as the means of propulsion of the ch. See also Luther, Chief Writings of, 7.
4. Marks. In contrast to the position that the episcopate or apostolic succession are the esse of the ch., the Luth. symbols have developed the concept of the Gospel and the Sacraments as the marks of the ch. (AC V, VIII, XIII). Special ministers of the Word are significant for the ch. as they use Gospel and Sacraments and train Christians for their mutual ministry (Eph 4:7–13).
See also Church Militant; Church Triumphant.
C. Bergendoff, The Doctrine of the Church in American Lutheranism (Philadelphia, 1956); R. R. Caemmerer, The Church in the World (St. Louis, 1949); R. R. Caemmerer and E. L. kueker, Church and Ministry in Transition (St. Louis, 1964); F. E. Mayer, “The Proper Distinction Between Law and Gospel and the Terminology Visible and Invisible Church,” CTM, XXV (March 1954), 177–198; P. S. Minear, Images of the Church in the New Testament (Philadelphia, 1960); F. Pieper, Christliche Dogmatik, III (St. Louis, 1920), 458–534, Eng. tr. Christian Dogmatics, III, ed. W. W. F. Albrecht (St. Louis, 1953), 397–435; H. A. Preus, The Communion of Saints (Minneapolis, 1948).
“Where two or three are gathered in My name, there I am.”
1Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
I hope you have flame proof undies on!
Schism as a state of sin has always been their position- that the Holy Spirit went directly from St. Peter through each successive Pope.
Thyatira.
What the Pope/Holy See not cozy with other faiths and that is something new?
As in something different from the last 1500 years?
Does the line of apostolic succession go through Pope Alexander VI ? Just asking...
I thought that we had gotten past this issue with the first ecumencal council. I guess its back to my youth when the Catholic kids told me I was a bastard and my mother was a whore because I was Protesant.
Too bad its come to this again.
Some will say its better to go back to the 15th Century than the 6th?
Second Question: What is the meaning of the affirmation that the Church of Christ subsists in the Catholic Church?Response: Christ "established here on earth" only one Church and instituted it as a "visible and spiritual community", that from its beginning and throughout the centuries has always existed and will always exist, and in which alone are found all the elements that Christ himself instituted. "This one Church of Christ, which we confess in the Creed as one, holy, catholic and apostolic […]. This Church, constituted and organised in this world as a society, subsists in the Catholic Church, governed by the successor of Peter and the Bishops in communion with him".
In number 8 of the Dogmatic Constitution Lumen gentium ‘subsistence’ means this perduring, historical continuity and the permanence of all the elements instituted by Christ in the Catholic Church, in which the Church of Christ is concretely found on this earth. It is possible, according to Catholic doctrine, to affirm correctly that the Church of Christ is present and operative in the churches and ecclesial Communities not yet fully in communion with the Catholic Church, on account of the elements of sanctification and truth that are present in them. Nevertheless, the word "subsists" can only be attributed to the Catholic Church alone precisely because it refers to the mark of unity that we profess in the symbols of the faith (I believe... in the "one" Church); and this "one" Church subsists in the Catholic Church.
So this is what happens when you give the pope those little blue pills. His head swells up!
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My dearest brother, we do not deny to the Roman Church the primacy amongst the five sister Patriarchates; and we recognize her right to the most honorable seat at an Ecumenical Council. But she has separated herself from us by her own deeds, when through pride she assumed a monarchy which does not belong to her office... How shall we accept decrees from her that have been issued without consulting us and even without our knowledge? If the Roman Pontiff, seated on the lofty throne of his glory, wishes to thunder at us and, so to speak, hurl his mandates at us from on high, and if he wishes to judge us and even to rule us and our Churches, not by taking counsel with us but at his own arbitrary pleasure, what kind of brotherhood, or even what kind of parenthood can this be? We should be the slaves, not the sons, of such a Church, and the Roman See would not be the pious mother of sons but a hard and imperious mistress of slaves (Quoted in S. Runciman, The Eastern Schism, p. 116).
Wow, this is not what Christianity needed. At a time when the west and all things Judeo-Chrisitan are under assault from Islam, the Pope has to start an intrafaith squabble. He needs to get with the program, start standing up for his own flock in places like Africa, where they’re being slaughtered by Muslims, and recognize that Christianity needs unity and firm leadership. How disappointing.
Get ready for some flamming in this and other threads.