Pope: Other Christians not true churches

AP ^ | July 11, 2007 | NICOLE WINFIELD

[f150sound]

LORENZAGO DI CADORE, Italy - Pope Benedict XVI has reasserted the universal primacy of the Roman Catholic Church, approving a document released Tuesday that says Orthodox churches were defective and that other Christian denominations were not true churches.

In the latest document — formulated as five questions and answers — the Vatican seeks to set the record straight on Vatican II's ecumenical intent, saying some contemporary theological interpretation had been "erroneous or ambiguous" and had prompted confusion and doubt.

It restates key sections of a 2000 document the pope wrote when he was prefect of the congregation, "Dominus Iesus," which set off a firestorm of criticism among Protestant and other Christian denominations because it said they were not true churches but merely ecclesial communities and therefore did not have the "means of salvation."

"Christ 'established here on earth' only one church," the document said. The other communities "cannot be called 'churches' in the proper sense" because they do not have apostolic succession — the ability to trace their bishops back to Christ's original apostles.

[Biggirl]

It is by the common baptism that all Christian believers share which unite the different churches.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"Sounds like the Catholic Church and the Mormons have a lot in common. Hmm..."

In what way, hmmm?

[pacelvi]

"So one is an anti-Semite unless one believes in the unquestioned temporal "correctness" of the nation state of Israel? "

One who is silent while God's People are being savaged against by barbarians and who from time to time actually side with the barabarians is an Anti-Semite.

This is what God thinks of the Arabs.... and the RCC sides with them? I doubt the Holy Spirit is guiding much of what the RCC does in regards to the Arab-Israeli conflict.. putting all the claims of exclusivity in doubt.

Ex 38:17 “‘This is what the sovereign Lord says: Are you the one of whom I spoke in former days by my servants24 the prophets of Israel, who prophesied in those days25 that I would bring you against them? 38:18 On that day, when Gog invades26 the land of Israel, declares the sovereign Lord, my rage will mount up in my anger. 38:19 In my zeal, in the fire of my fury,27 I declare that on that day there will be a great earthquake28 in the land of Israel. 38:20 The fish of the sea, the birds of the sky, the wild beasts, all the things that creep on the ground, and all people who live on the face of the earth will shake29 at my presence. The mountains will topple, the cliffs30 will fall, and every wall will fall to the ground. 38:21 I will call for a sword to attack31 Gog32 on all my mountains, declares the sovereign Lord; every man’s sword will be against his brother. 38:22 I will judge him with plague and bloodshed. I will rain down on him, his troops and the many peoples who are with him a torrential downpour, hailstones, fire, and brimstone. 38:23 I will exalt and magnify myself; I will reveal myself before many nations. Then they will know that I am the Lord.’



Free Version:

http://answering-islam.org/Authors/JR/Future/index.htm

[Mrs. Don-o]

I like the funny hat.

Do you really think that individual articles of clothing have to be specified in the Bible?

(No loincloth jokes. Please.)

[Abigail Adams]

Saying that they are the only true Christian church with true apostolic succession.

[Mrs. Don-o]

Many priests are not pedophiles. By the way, this research by Hofstra University's Charol Shakeshaft ought to be more generally recognized: "The figures suggest that the physical sexual abuse of students in [public] schools is likely more than 100 times the abuse by priests."

That's why I tend to conclude that those who free-associate priest with pedophile are probably either sincerely unaware of the facts, or, very uncommonly I hope, bigots.

[Mrs. Don-o]

I think everyone needs to be converted. Me, several times a day.

[Mrs. Don-o]

"I remember being told by my Catholic friends that I was going to hell because I was not Catholic."

Your Catholic friends were evidently either snake-mean or turkey-stupid.

[Stark_GOP]

Apparently, you and the Pope have differing opinions on this matter.

[fishergirl]

Hmmm, I think you got something there. For me, it is a sad realization that apparently my Catholic friends have been pitying me in the back of their minds all along that I’m not Catholic and am steadily heading for hell unless I convert. Even though I worship at my church on Sundays, Oops! I meant my “ecclesial community”!

[Mrs. Don-o]

Here’s what the Catechism says:

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All who have been justified by faith in Baptism are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers in the Lord by the children of the Catholic Church.”

Furthermore, many elements of sanctification and of truth” are found outside the visible confines of the Catholic Church: “the written Word of God; the life of grace; faith, hope, and charity, with the other interior gifts of the Holy Spirit, as well as visible elements.”

Christ’s Spirit uses these Churches and ecclesial communities as means of salvation, whose power derives from the fullness of grace and truth that Christ has entrusted to the Catholic Church. All these blessings come from Christ and lead to him, and are in themselves calls to “Catholic unity.”

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Now if anyone -— without even having read the document, sheesh! -— wants to argue that the Pope has chucked all that Catechism stuff and now believes otherwise: (long pause)

Friend, you are mistaken.

[Stark_GOP]

Your Catholic friends were evidently either snake-mean or turkey-stupid.

---

They were just repeating what there priests were teaching them.

[Iowegian]

Thanks for proving my point. I’ll take that as “it doesn’t mean what it says”.

[pacelvi]

“All who have been justified by faith in Baptism “

So what if one wasn’t Baptized? Say they haven’t had time , or they live in an Islamic country and the people who did the baptisms were beheaded?

Does God maintain a clipboard with checkbox next to purported Christians names to mark if the person was Baptized?

[Mad Dawg]

I remember being told by my Catholic friends that I was going to hell because I was not Catholic.

In all seriousness, this is just not Catholic Theology, nor is it what the Pope is saying. I would avoid going to AP or to Reuters for anything more complicated than box scores anyway. Whether we deserve the bias against us or not, I think any reasonable person would agree that

Catholics Suggest That Everybody Else Hellbound

is more newsy than

Traditional Catholic Teaching not as Scandalous and Arrogant as Most of us Would Like to Believe

or

Catholic Teaching Shows Nuance!

Parts Require More Than Two Seconds of Study to Understand

But, as I read your responses to other Catholics responding to you, I see that you don't believe us. Here's something to chew on: Dante has a non-Catholic in heaven, and that, so far as I know, has never been considered a controversial part of his Commedia.

[Petronski]

Great post!

[GCC Catholic]

Catholic Teaching Shows Nuance!: Parts Require More Than Two Seconds of Study to Understand

That made my afternoon. Thanks.

[Nihil Obstat]

God bless you abundantly Mrs. Don-o. I wish I had your patience.

[Mad Dawg]

Does God maintain a clipboard with checkbox next to purported Christians names to mark if the person was Baptized?

My understanding is he lets the junior angels handle the bureaucratic stuff.

There are also baptism of desire and baptism of blood, q.v., as traditional exceptions to the requirement of water baptism. We neither think nor teach that God is looking for reasons not to include people in His Love.

[Iowegian]

Nuanced = whatever we want it to mean, at our convenience