God doesn't give a crap about bodies. Pre-tribulation rapture makes no sense spiritually. 
Posted on 07/07/2007 7:48:37 PM PDT by tnarg
Mark it down as biblical truth: There is no pre-tribulation rapture.
However, untold thousands believe in the "secret rapture of the church" prior to the tribulation period. This is because untold thousands don't want to have to think of suffering through a tribulation time frame. The late Corrie ten Boom called this pre-trib rapture teaching the "American doctrine." Go figure.
The belief in a secret rapture of believers before the tribulation is also because of a best-seller, "The Late, Great Planet Earth," by Hal Lindsey which was set loose in the l960s. It has been a paperback aggressively pushed by practically every evangelical / fundamentalist engine going.
Theologians, videos, films and preachers bolster up this myth with their earnest preachings and teachings.
Yet this is nothing but a myth, accented as much by certain theologically conservative Protestant segments similar unto the Roman Catholic underlining of the immaculate conception of Mary. Nevertheless, if there is no biblical support for such a Mariology teaching, it is bogus. Likewise, the pre-tribulation rapture teaching is bogus.
The pre-trib rapture concept was manufactured in the 1800s in an 18 year old Plymouth Brethren girl's dream, told to her Pastor, John Darby, and then relayed to C. I. Scofield who bought into the dream as revealed truth. Scofield placed this pre-tribulation rapture notion as a footnote in his popular Bible, hence the spread of the myth.
However, just the opposite is biblical truth. In Matthew 24:29-3l, for instance, the rapture ("gathering together") is placed in the same time frame as the open second coming of Jesus Christ. And all of this is "after the tribulation" (verse 29). That is it in a nutshell!
Yet pre-tribulation rapturists sidestep this clear passage for more oblique passages. The latter are twisted and turned in order to fit into the "American doctrine." Yet such twisting is not sound exegesis. And for biblically-riveted evangelicals and fundamentalists to commit this drastic error is bordering on the horrific.
All other passages in Scripture relating to the "gathering together unto Him" must refer back to the literal time line provided by Jesus in Matthew 24.
One must not use a symbolic passage in the Book of Revelation or any other symbolically-based section of the Bible by which to draw a pre-tribulation rapture doctrine.
Further, one must not take words of the apostle Paul so as to insert them opportunistically into a conjured pre-tribulation string of Scripture references. Yet this has been done ad infinitum.
Instead, Jesus' literalism of Matthew 24 must be used as the benchmark for all other "gathering together" themes of Scripture.
One starts with literalism and moves into symbolism when seeking to understand Scripture; it is not the other way around.
During the 1970s and 1980s there was much written and preached about a pre-tribulation rapture. This has wound down some in the last decade or so. Why?
Today, with the world situation being what it is, there is not that much risk-taking in preaching dogmatically the pre-tribulation rapture. Why?
Is it because there are many who are beginning to question its validity? Is it because the world state is so uncertain that to go out on a limb with a false hope may ricochet?
One wonders, with world events progressively becoming more and more anti-Christian, why the pre-tribulation rapture persons are not celebrating each dawn as the day when Jesus may return to earth.
Such is not the phenomenon on a large scale. Furthermore, it may be because the next generation has not bought into this notion.
In any case, it is a myth, a legend of conservative Protestantism's own conjuring and has no base in the Holy Scriptures.
Yet these very Protestants are the ones who ardently point out the myths of Catholicism while holding to some of their own myths. Both segments of Christendom need to do some serious housecleaning of manufactured legends in order to return to the simple Bible truths; otherwise, the church suffers from severe lack of knowledge.
What is so frightening about holding to a pre-tribulation rapture? It is more than mere academic quibbling. Holding to such a notion is drastically weakening the church worldwide.
The church should be preparing for spiritual battle against the most evil forces arrayed by hell.
Instead, the church is languishing with a false hope. This is all orchestrated by the demonic powers in order to eventuate in a limp army of believers. And to see that through in this age of laxity in religion does not take much on the part of the dark powers. In addition, the apostate segment of religion is doing its fair share of blackening truth.
Does it take much intelligence to realize that there are awesomely wretched days yet ahead for the righteous remnant?
Those who are not strong will drop--fall away, as biblically predicted. They will be too numerous to contemplate. But for those who are truly into carrying the daily cross there will be nothing able to thwart their zeal for Christ.
Already the remnant is being strengthened by the Spirit of light. He is gathering His own together in the power of the resurrection and the might of the revealed Word. There numbers are few; but their ardor before the Father is lovingly honored.
Set your vision upon the difficulties yet to be. They are but the trials permitted by the coming Christ.
At the close of the tribulation period, then there will be the gathering together of the believers from the four corners of the earth. They will greet Jesus in the clouds as He descends through space, having left the right hand of the Father in heaven.
The gathering together ("rapture") and the second advent then will be realized as one and the same event occurring at the end of the tribulation time frame. Jesus' declaration in Matthew 24:29-3l states it clearly.
I think the Nation of Israel is where The lord wants them to be: [Amos 9:9] For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth. Now....since you have been shown what God is going to do with the House of Israel......from scripture........"you" tell me where they are! I would say that, we here in the U.S.A., probably have a decent share of them! As to where the rest of them are.......for the umpteenth time I DON'T KNOW!
One thing is very certain as well as scriptural. They are not sitting in a little country in the Middle East surrounded by terrorist states.
Scripture twisting at its finest.
It reminds me on the dispensationalist wranglings over kingdom of heaven vs. kingdom of God, and “trump” vs. “trumpet”, generation vs. race, Rosh is Russia, Meshech is Moscow and Tubal is Tobolsk.
FTD when I read some of your posts about this tribe issue it reminds me of Jesus talking to Paul - ...And the Lord said, 'I am Jesus Whom thou persecutest; it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks."
Aren't you weary of kicking against those pricks of truth? God wants you to know these things. Because some churches don't know or teach them doesn't mean you must stay in the dark about the issue.
There is a great deal of "scripture twisting". Some believe scripture tells them of a rapture, some believe Eve ate an apple, some think all the different races came from Noah, others believe the world was made in 6 days, still others actually believe we're in the millennium, despite all the scriptures that say the complete opposite. Scripture is twisted often and oddly enough those that believe those things can't see the truth about the house of Israel.
The difference here, in reference to the 12 tribes of Israel, is that it is CLEARLY shown in God's Word, over and over again.
Don't be so arrogant. You could be wrong. I say you probably are wrong, but then I could be wrong.
Phillip.....why do you say she's wrong? You must have some scripture to back up your charge. It is not arrogance to posit what you believe. (Ping-Pong:God wants you to know these things.) She is making a valid point. Why do you think The Lord inspired these things to be written....if He wanted us to ignore them?
I did not say she was wrong. I said she could be wrong. I also said that I could be wrong about her being wrong.
Gosh Diego, get a grip. You could be wrong too. In fact I think you are wrong. But I could be wrong about that.
It is the height of arrogance to speak for God.
God doesn't give a crap about bodies. Pre-tribulation rapture makes no sense spiritually.
That would be arrogant but it wasn't meant that way. I didn't think anyone would assume I thought I could speak for God. I'll be more careful with how I phrase things in the future.
Thank you for admitting you could be wrong as I think you are probably wrong but I could be wrong too.
Joking aside, Diego clearly laid out the truth about the 12 tribes as God shows us in His Word. Surely this is something He would want us to understand
I've found the opposite to be true on both accounts.
God cares even about the little sparrow and how it is provided for in its body. He still has scars from the Cross in His eternal body of the Son. The body of the Son though followed the will of the Son to remain true to the Father.
In regards to the spirit, the pretrib rapture makes very much sense if the Holy Spirit no longer indwells the believer during the Great Tribulation.
Interestingly, I ran across a Catholic (RCC) article last week that also distinguished between the KOH & the KOG. I wish I'd saved the link, and I didn't look at it closely. I was searching a protestant topic, and that article didn't really address what I was looking for so I moved on.
Please tell me the scripture that mentions the Holy Spirit won't be with us. I know I have read something about that but I can't find it.
Thank you.
Even the Catholic church's saintifying process elevates pain in importance for becoming a saint.
A body is a temporary vessel for the spirit and soul; it always dies. Everlasting life is for the soul.
I repeat, God doesn't give a crap about bodies; He gives a crap about the state of the immortal living therein and its growth, which growth is always enabled by pain.
How do you know what churches are teaching? And how do you know that your information is absolutely correct?
I don't know what all churches teach but I know many don't teach about the tribes if so many church goers aren't aware of it. I know I'm not "absolutely correct" but I do know the information about the tribes being separate is very true. It is throughout His word.
On a side issue, I noticed earlier in this thread that a poster asked some questions about end times beliefs, but no one answered his/her questions on line. I think that's an example of missing the forest for the trees.
I thought I answered all of the questions. As far as I know, there was only one I didn't answer because I didn't know what he meant (soul sleep) - I asked for clarification but never received an answer.
We are here to spread the good news of Jesus, but some of us (myself included at times) are so caught up in our own defense of our own theology that we miss the individual on the side asking for help. That is sad.
Yes, it is. Scubie, I try to stay away from theology and only discuss what is written, not what different religions say.
Gal 5:26 Let us not be desirous of vain glory, provoking one another, envying one another.
Do you think that describes what I have done? What glory do I seek, how have I provoked or who do I envy?
1Tim. 1:4-6 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: [so do].
The only genealogies I'm interested in are the ones God so carefully lays out for us to study.
2Tim. 2:16 But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
Again, I only try to discuss His Word - Is that vain babblings?
Titus 3:8-9 [This is] a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
Isn't it considered good works to share truth with others. I thought that was our purpose. The problem arises if others don't believe it is the truth.
.....Ping
II Th 2:7
The fact is that the Bible clearly states that remnants of all 12 tribes eventually ended up in Judah. They intermarried and at this point only God knows the genealogies of the Jews. 12,000 of each tribe will be chosen in accordance with the book of Revelation.
Frankly I don't know why anyone feels the need to make a big deal about it. I don't plan on being here when it happens. When the age of the Gentiles is complete, I expect to be sitting down at the Marriage Supper of the Lamb. I expect to be sitting down for a feast when God pours out his wrath upon the earth.
I'll explain it all to you when we get there.
Thank you anyway and it is good to hear from you again too. I hope you have been well.
....Ping
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