Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
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(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
Nothing scares people away from investigating a "true church" like a church making such a claim while not telling the truth by intentionally misleading others on their history/doctrine. In fact the church clearly violates its own teachings on honesty. "We can also intentionally deceive others by a gesture or a look, by silence, or by telling only part of the truth .... People use many excuses for being dishonest .... To the Lord, there are no acceptable reasons. President Kimball taught that when we excuse ourselves, we cheat ourselves and the Spirit of God ceases to be with us. We become more and more unrighteous .... If there are ways in which we are being even the least bit dishonest, we should repent of them immediately. When we are completely honest, we cannot be corrupted. http://tinyurl.com/23lamx. That's some pretty sound advice coming from Chapter 31 of the LDS church's Gospel Principles manual. During my 1990-1992 mission we used the Gospel Principles manual for all of our Sunday School classes with investigators, new members and people who were recently reactivated. During my years in a Branch Presidency and Bishopric (i.e. 1996 to 2000) we did the same. If ever there was a very anti-Mormon website its http://library.lds.org. The church's own words doom their credibility. It's time for them to repent of any of their sins of omission and to stop making excuses on why its acceptable to omit or mislead anyone.
This is a mighty interesting video about the Book of Abraham if you have an hour to spare....
http://youtube.com/watch?v=hcyzkd_m6KE
I've had many a discussion with young Mormon men. They don't know what the bible says and try to divert you into the Book of Mormon. Unable to answer simple theological Christian questions, their standard response is either We'll go back to the church and get the answer and be back, or, You have a malicious spirit. At any rate they are never heard from again.
I have taken their challenge to read the Book of Mormon and see if my bosum began to burn. It did not.
My many discussions with many of you have let me see what you truly believe, and I have come to the conclusion that you have no idea who or what you worship.
Seeing as how Lucifer is also supposedly Christ's elder brother, and thus yours, do you have a close relationship with him as well?
32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.I have confessed Jesus many times here on this very forum, I am content that he knows who I am, the rest of you hooligans trying to denigrate the faith of others and deny them the name of Christian, well, by their fruits ye shall know them, and your fruitiness is on display here for all to see.
33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.
4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:So, Satan told eve two things, 1) she would not Die and 2) she would be as the Gods knowing Good and evil.
5 For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.we see God telling Adam the he will die (return to dust)
22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:Notice the part I bolded? God said Man had become "one of Us" These prove
Those are Jesus' own words; that is God's perspective.
God, who was once a man, created mankind? H. G. Wells put you up to this, didn't he?
My lineage in the house of Israel is through the tribe of Ephraim
Joseph1
Son of Rachel, Jacob’s second wife (Gen. 30: 22-24; Gen. 37: 3). An extensive account of his life is given in Gen. 37 - 50. The story is especially instructive in showing the discipline of misfortune and also that the Lord rewards his obedient children according to their faithfulness.
The story of Joseph is also an illustration of the way in which God works in history, preserving his people. Joseph’s valor in resisting the allurements of Potiphar’s wife is an unequaled example of faith, chastity, and personal purity. His protection was his faith, as illustrated by his words: “How then can I do this great wickedness, and sin against God” (Gen. 39: 9). In the N.T. Joseph is mentioned only once (Heb. 11: 21-22), as an example of faith.
Joseph obtained the birthright in Israel because he was worthy and because it was his natural right. When Reuben, the actual firstborn, lost the privilege by transgression (1 Chr. 5: 1-2), Joseph, as the firstborn son of Jacob’s second wife, was next in line for the blessing. Joseph was a visionary man, a dreamer and interpreter of dreams, “a man in whom the Spirit of God is” (Gen. 41: 38).
Special blessings and prophecies on the head of Joseph and his posterity are found in Gen. 48: 1-22; Gen. 49: 1, 22-26; and Deut. 33: 13-17. When Joseph died in Egypt at age 110, he was embalmed; but, in keeping with his own previous request, he was kept from burial until Moses and the children of Israel took his bones to Canaan, to be buried near his father and other ancestors (Gen. 50: 22-26; Ex. 13: 19; Josh. 24: 32).
Latter-day revelation confirms many of the biblical details about Joseph and adds other important facts (see 2 Ne. 3: 4-22; 2 Ne. 4: 2; Alma 10: 3; Alma 46: 23-27; JST Gen. 50). It is through latter-day revelation that the larger mission of the family of Joseph in the last days is illustrated.
The tribes of Ephraim and Manasseh, Joseph’s children, were among the ten tribes of the Northern Kingdom of Israel, and thus among the “lost tribes.” Also, one portion of Joseph’s descendants came to America about 600 B.C. and established two great peoples.
The record of their doings is called the Book of Mormon. It has also been primarily Joseph’s descendants whom the Lord has called upon first in these last days to carry the gospel to the nations of the earth, in compliance with the covenant God made with Abraham.
Thanks for the link. I will try and find some time to check it out more thoroughly. I have to admit that I have not done many apologetics work concerning Mormons.
I agree. Mormoms are not necessarily "bad" people. Most of them that I know are very nice and I gladly call them friends. It is just that they are not true believers in the Lord God Jesus Christ. And that their version of truth is more than just wrong. Very much more.
The Book of Mormon claims regarding civilizations on this continent have been proven false. There is zero archaelogical evidence to support the fabrications in the Book of Mormon regarding Israelites come to the Americas and the DNA proof excludes ALL genetic lines of Native Americans from being descended from Israelites.
The Book of Mormon is fraudulent, a fabrication, and thus a deception concerning a visitation by Jesus to the Americas in approximately 33AD. Joseph Smith was a fraud and set out to deceive people in many ways. He has been shown to be a liar regarding his liasons with numerous females, some of whom were teenaged girls in polyandrous relationship with Smith (married to other men at the time Smith was bedding them).
The Book of Abraham is a total fabrication right from the mind of a liar who set out to deceive those around him, as proven with hieroglyphic studies showing Smith had zero comprehension of hieroglyphics and there is no such language called reformed Egyptian.
You are living under deception in following Mormonism as if it were from God. Read 2Peter 2:1 & 3 and Romans 10:2. You have a zeal for the Lord, but this false prophet, Joseph Smith, has fed to you and your fellow Mormonism adherents a feast of fabrications which do not testify of Jesus Christ. The story in the book of mormon is a lie, a fabrication. Jesus is not to be found clothed in lies. Smith used the desire of fellow Americans to follow the Lord in order to gather power and influence about himself. His lies and deceit are still gathering/misleading folks to the central demonic deceits. I implore you to leave these fabrications and be renewed in your mind through the truth in The Bible.
One might look at this as in a spiritual game of scrimmage the Lord play book it seems many time the opposition has stolen the Lord playbook from his children when they became to complacent.
So many like to think the Bible is inherent but the book is just like any other object upon the earth it is subject to the designs of men. One should never forget there is a war going on upon the earth for the souls of men.
Eph 6 12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. As one reads the records of Morse one of the latter prophets in the OT he received from the Lord a recap of the history and word of the Lord from the beginning of time with Adam.
Than there was this huge gap of unrecorded time of the doings with his children, between Malachi and Matthew that we have no knowledge of except secular.
The events of the NT Open with Matthew and the coming of the birth of the Messiah until all the of the Lord Apostles are gone and the Priesthood is taken from the earth.
Now there is another gap until the Restoration of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints and the time has to come to prepare for the Lord to return by building of Zion upon the earth!
Joseph Smith is the restoration Prophet and had conversed with many including Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ and his servants such as Moses, Paul and other figures in the Lord priesthood. The LDS do not fine it strange that Joseph were to edit and restore to the Bible the scriptures and doctrines that was taken from the children of God upon the earth!
So you say...
That link is to http://youtube.com/watch?v=svfxSscxh8o&mode=related&search=
You can be freed from the deceptions, Resty. http://youtube.com/user/lhvm
I did make a mistake on my post in saying that it was the lie of Satan when it should have said one of his lies. And it is a main one. The sinful nature of man desires to be like God. Not just in knowing good and evil, but in many, many ways. And Satan preys on that prideful, sinful nature in man, to the effect that if they just do all these things, one of them even being that they say the "believe" in Jesus, that they will have eternal life. Nonetheless, it does not negate the whole point, in that man desires to be like God and that is a root of many, if not all sin.
However, as the Word says in 1 John, any teaching (spirit) that denies that God Himself, the Holy One of Israel becaome flesh to die, once and for all for our salvation is not of God. Mormononis not only denies the God of the bible by redefining who He is, not just the Father, but God the Son and even God the Holy Spirit, and then it adds to that blaspheme by saying that you have to DO things to earn your way to heaven. Your posts and others mormon apologists here have confirmed that.
Either the Almighty, One and Only God Himself has already redeemed us because we are unable, or He has not. You have said that over, and over in many forms, if not using those exact words.
Scripture makes if very clear that those who deny Him, as the Mormons do, are not of His fold. Now, there are many who claim to know Him, who do not try to redefine God, but yet in their hearts, their trust is still in themselves. But other cults, such as LDS, DO make it much easier to spot. That does not mean they aren't nice and friendly people, it just means they don't belong to His fold. His definition, not mine.
You confess a Jesus that is not of the bible. The Mormon Jesus is simply not the Jesus of scripture. I also understand that you cannot see that at this time. Perhaps some day you will.
I realize that you are trying to shoot me down. I really don't care. I am not out to "trap" anyone, but to expose what is not God's truth when it is proclaimed that it is God's Truth. I am not ashamed of the gospel, that it is Jesus Christ, the Almighty God in the flesh, who was was the fulfillment, completion of the Law so that all those who call on His name, His nature, will be saved. It isn't about me, or you or Joseph Smith or anyone else except the Lord God, Jesus Christ.
When you can address all the other scriptures that have been posted, then I would be happy to address the small issue that you have for trying to make men into godsm which seems like you just tried to deny that you said you believ. Otherwise, I really don't have the time for this. I love to discuss God's Word, but only if it is a true discussion that is edifying and exalts His Name.
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