Posted on 07/05/2007 3:00:33 AM PDT by Gamecock
The following draws from the book Is the Mormon My Brother by apologist James White. Earlier this year, Paul Kaiser reprinted a Worldview article titled 10 Mormonism Facts which generated a myriad of responses from visitors who stated that Mormons were being misrepresented and are simply our brothers & sisters in the Body of Christ. Let’s look at what Dr. White presents using LDS resources:
The First Vision
Without question the key revelation in Mormon Scripture regarding the nature of God is to be found in what is known as the First Vision of Joseph Smith. The vision itself is fundamental to all of LDS theology. Mormon Apostle Bruce R. McConkie described the vision:
That glorious theophany which took place in the spring of 1820 and which marked the opening of the dispensation of the fullness of times is called the First Vision. It is rated as first both from the standpoint of time and of pre-eminent importance. In it Joseph Smith saw and conversed with the Father and the Son, both of which exalted personages were personally present before him as he lay enwrapped in the Spirit and overshadowed by the Holy Ghost.
This transcendent vision was the beginning of latter day revelation; it marked the opening of the heavens after the long night of apostate darkness; with it was ushered in the great era of restoration, the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began. (Acts 3:21.) Through it the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens, and because of it the truth about those Beings whom it is life eternal to know began again to be taught among men. (John 17:3.) With this vision came the call of that Prophet who, save Jesus only, was destined to do more for the salvation of men in this world, than any other man that ever lived in it. (D. & C. 135:3.) This vision was the most important event that had taken place in all world history from the day of Christ’s ministry to the glorious hour when it occurred.(1)
And Mormon Prophet Ezra Taft Benson said,
Joseph Smith, a prophet of God, restored the knowledge of God. Joseph’s first vision clearly revealed that the Father and Son are separate personages, having bodies as tangible as mans. Later it was also revealed that the Holy Ghost is a personage of Spirit, separate and distinct from the personalities of the Father and the Son. (See D&C 130:22.) This all-important truth shocked the world even though sustained by the Bible. (2)
How is it that the creeds of Christendom were shattered to smithereens and the knowledge of God was restored by this one vision? While the story is as familiar to Mormons as John 3:16 is to Christians, we present Joseph Smith’s own recounting of the story in full, taken from the LDS Scriptures (and hence carrying canonical authority). However, we note that the account that appears in the LDS Scriptures was written in 1838, eighteen years after the events described:
14 So, in accordance with this, my determination to ask of God, I retired to the woods to make the attempt. It was on the morning of a beautiful, clear day, early in the spring of eighteen hundred and twenty. It was the first time in my life that I had made such an attempt, for amidst all my anxieties I had never as yet made the attempt to pray vocally.
15 After I had retired to the place where I had previously designed to go, having looked around me, and finding myself alone, I kneeled down and began to offer up the desires of my heart to God. I had scarcely done so, when immediately I was seized upon bysome power which entirely overcame me, and had such an astonishing influence over me as to bind my tongue so that I could not speak. Thick darkness gathered around me, and it seemed to me for a time as if I were doomed to sudden destruction.
16 But, exerting all my powers to call upon God to deliver me out of the power of this enemy which had seized upon me, and at the very moment when I was ready to sink into despair and abandon myself to destruction—not to an imaginary ruin, but to the power of some actual being from the unseen world, who had such marvelous power as I had never before felt in any being just at this moment of great alarm, I saw a pillar of light exactly over my head, above the brightness of the sun, which descended gradually until it fell upon me.
17 It no sooner appeared than I found myself delivered from the enemy which held me bound. When the light rested upon me I saw two Personages, whose brightness and glory defy all description, standing above me in the air. One of them spake unto me, calling me by name and said, pointing to the other This is My Beloved Son. Hear Him!
18 My object in going to inquire of the Lord was to know which of all the sects was right, that I might know which to join. No sooner, therefore, did I get possession of myself, so as to be able to speak, than I asked the Personages who stood above me in the light, which of all the sects was right (for at this time it had never entered into my heart that all were wrong)–and which I should join.
19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong;(3) and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.
20 He again forbade me to join with any of them; and many other things did he say unto me, which I cannot write at this time. When I came to myself again, I found myself lying on my back, looking up into heaven. When the light had departed, I had no strength; but soon recovering in some degree, I went home. And as I leaned up to the fireplace, mother inquired what the matter was. I replied, Never mind, all is well I am well enough off. I then said to my mother, I have learned for myself that Presbyterianism is not true. It seems as though the adversary was aware, at a very early period of my life, that I was destined to prove a disturber and an annoyer of his kingdom; else why should the powers of darkness combine against me? Why the opposition and persecution that arose against me, almost in my infancy? (Joseph Smith History 1:14-20).
What does this vision, recorded in LDS Scripture, teach concerning God? First and foremost, it presents to us the concept of a plurality of gods. This arises from the fact that God the Father is a separate and distinct physical entity from Jesus Christ, His Son. God the Father is possessed of a physical body, as is the Son. This is why McConkie can claim the creeds of Christendom were smashed to smithereens, for the vision has always been interpreted by the LDS leadership to teach that God the Father is a separate and distinct person and being from the Son. The unity of Being that is central to Christian theology is completely denied by Joseph Smith in the First Vision. Hence, you have one God, the Father, directing Smith to another God, the Son.
While it is not our intention to critique these teachings at this point, it should be noted that there are a number of problems with the First Vision, and with the entire development of the LDS concept of God as well. As we noted, this version of the First Vision was not written until 1838. Previous versions, however, differed in substantial details from this final and official account. Most significantly, the presence of both the Father and the Son as separate and distinct gods is not a part of the earlier accounts.(4)
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(1) Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine,2nd ed., rev. (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1966), pp. 284-285, LDSCL.
(2) Ezra Taft Benson, Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson (Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1988), p. 4, LDSCL. On page 101 of the same book, we read this strong statement:
The first vision of the Prophet Joseph Smith is bedrock theology to the Church. The adversary knows this and has attacked Joseph Smith’s credibility from the day he announced the visitation of the Father and the Son. You should always bear testimony to thetruth of the First Vision. Joseph Smith did see the Father and the Son. They conversed with him as he said they did. Any leader who, without reservation, cannot declare his testimony that God and Jesus Christ appeared to Joseph Smith can never be a true leader, a true shepherd. If we do not accept this truth if we have not received a witness about this great revelationwe cannot inspire faith in those whom we lead.
(3) One of Mormonism’s leading scholars, James Talmage (and a General Authority), said the following in the General Conference of April, 1920:
This Church, therefore, from its beginning, has been unique, for the organization of the Church was forecasted in this declaration that at the time of Joseph Smiths first vision there was no Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth; and I do not see why people should take issue with us for making that statement (CR1920Apr:103).
(4) I noted a number of the historical problems with Mormonism in Letters to a Mormon Elder, pp. 88-106. For a fuller treatment of this issue, see H. Michael Marquardt and Wesley P. Walters, Inventing Mormonism (Salt Lake: Smith Research Associates, 1994), pp.1-41, and Jerald and Sandra Tanner, Mormonism: Shadow or Reality? (Salt Lake City: Utah Lighthouse Ministry, 1982), pp. 143-162.
Afterwards, I'll come back here and lie to Spiff, just to see if size really matters. :)
I saw that garbage. And I called it garbage. But there you are again serving up more garbage.
Spiff we don’t know if the Church had it banned although I would not blame the Church if it did, but for now it is hearsay!
It could be a marketing ploy by the anti mormons to get more people to watch the video!
I second that Spiff, she use to skirt around but now she goes for the jugular we could spend a life time cleaning up here mess I know I use to do it here in the old days.
Succintly stated. Saw this summary of Christian beliefs on a Christian college's website:
I. THE SCRIPTURES
We believe that the Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are verbally and plenary inspired of God, are inerrant in the original writings, and are the infallible authority in all matters of faith and conduct (II Timothy 3:16).
II. THE GODHEAD
We believe in one God, eternally existing in three persons, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit (John 1:1,2). These three are equal in every divine perfection and execute distinct but harmonious offices in the work of creation and redemption (John 15:2).
III. THE FATHER
We believe in God the Father, Creator of heaven and earth, perfect in holiness, infinite in wisdom, measureless in power (Gen. 1:1, Ex. 15:11, Job 12:13, Matthew 19:26). We rejoice that He concerns Himself mercifully in the affairs of men, that He hears and answers prayer (Matthew 6:6), and that He saves from sin and death all who come to Him through Jesus Christ (John 1:12).
IV. THE SON, JESUS CHRIST
We believe in Jesus Christ, the eternal and only begotten Son of God, conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, sinless in His life, making atonement for the sin of the world by His substitutionary death on the cross. We believe in His bodily resurrection, His ascension into heaven, His present high priestly intercession for His people (Hebrews 9:24), and His personal, visible, imminent (Hebrews 9:28), and premillennial return to this earth according to His promise.
V. THE HOLY SPIRIT
We believe in the Holy Spirit, who came forth from God to convince the world of sin, of righteousness, and of judgment, and to regenerate, sanctify, and comfort those who believe in Jesus Christ (John 16:7,8).
VI. THE SALVATION OF MAN
We believe that man was created in the image of God (Genesis 1:26), that he sinned in Adam, and that all men by nature and by choice are sinners having incurred not only physical death but also that spiritual death which is separation from God (Romans 3:23). We also believe that "God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." Therefore, those who by faith, apart from human merit, works, or ceremonies, accept Christ as Lord and Saviour are justified on the grounds of His shed blood and become children of God. We believe in the bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust (I Corinthians 15:22, Acts 17:31). The saved will rejoice forever in God's presence and the lost will be forever separated from God in everlasting conscious punishment. We believe that every human being is responsible to God alone in all matters of faith (Jude 24).
VII. THE CHURCH
We believe in the Church — a living, spiritual body of which Christ is the Head and of which all regenerated people are members. We believe that a visible church is a company of believers in Jesus Christ, buried with him in baptism and associated for worship, work, and fellowship (Ephesians 1:22,23). We believe that to these visible churches were committed for observance "till He come" the ordinances of baptism (Matthew 3:13-15) and the Lord's Supper (I Corinthians 11:23-26); and that God has laid upon these churches the task of persuading a lost world to accept Jesus Christ as Saviour and to enthrone Him as Lord and Master.
VIII. THE RESPONSIBILITY
We believe that we are under divine obligation to contend earnestly for the faith once delivered unto the saints by proclaiming to a lost world the acceptance of Jesus Christ as Saviour and the enthroning of Him as Lord and Master (Jude 3, Acts 16:30, Colossians 3:1-3).
Same thing I have witness here in NY.
Also what I notices was those who leave is because many life style was being crampted, and if they are not be hounded by their family they don’t look for a recourse against the Church!
But those who feel guilt or are being guilted by their family will lash out at the Church to make the pain way!
Well, the Filioque is a rather big exception, considering the role it played in the schism between the Eastern and Western Churches.
Interesting question, but a red herring in the present discussion.
Not at all. Any definition of Christian which excludes the early Apostles and saints strikes me as absurd.
The Nicene Creed is the official creed of the EO, but I’m not aware that the EO would deny anything in either of those other creeds (with the exception of the Filioque).
What about those Protestants who claim to be "non-creedal"? Are they Christians according to your definition?
Yeah Spiff, YOU a member in good standing, are the official spokesman for the ex-LDS.
What? Does it disturb you that I am not behaving like a good little Mormon girl and keeping my mouth shut? You act like you know all about those who have left the Church. Let me guess, your alter-ego is LeGrande.
Are not now a member of the Niceno-Constantinopolitan Creed?
***It says he is a doctor.***
Must have been that horse doctor in Farmington NM who claimed he was a dentist. He pulled one of my teeth in 1955. Notice I said ONE!
Who are you calling stranger? I know your first name, resty. We are not strangers.
***It’s the Jack Mormons who go atheist that I worry about, like my boss.***
Years ago, I saw Madaline Murry O’Hair on the Larry King Live show. She said that the best atheists were former Mormons and Catholics.
8 lb red entropy croaker.
Yum.
Low Church.
***The terms actually came about in the Anglican church in the 16th & 17th centuries***
Here is a way to tell. When you leave the services does the preacher shake hands by sticking out his hand or just two fingers and thumb. If he does it with two fingers you know in the preacher considers you are very low, not worthy of a full five finger handshake.
When has this ever happened to anyone?
All sides have their nutcases. Ruy here apparently thinks that a caste system exists within America.
What then, is a christian?..
It is true that high church/low church refers to the style of service, and I alluded to that, if you read back, the denominations included in high church, as opposed to those in low church.
But, in the South, the phrase went beyond Anglicanism, as Episcopalianism quickly became a religion of the affluent. Prior to the WBTS, the South as a whole had less religious division than the North. There were prosperous Jewish communities in most of the major Southern cities, there were no Jewish ghettoes though. The South in general, showed a greater religious cooperation than did the North. The war ended that. In general, in the South, Catholicism was very much an elite religion, or at the very least, it didn’t contain the connotations of poverty that it did in say, Chicago or New York. The South took religious cues from Maryland in that regard. Catholic immigrants didn’t begin arriving until the 1840’s-50’s, and so by in large, the Catholic tradition was a colonial tradition, and so, Catholics were part of the establishment along with the other religions.
Reconstruction ended when the Bourbons took back power. The Populists rose in the late 1880’s, and they mixed religion and politics, and they noted that in general, some faiths tended to have members of a better standard of living than did others. So, populist politicians who also incorporated religion into their approach openly derided “high church elites” as holding the poor man down. And they had a point, from the end of Reconstruction to WWII, what they were saying was true, in general, there were class disparities in religious preference, and many politicians exploited this successfully to the detriment of the region as a whole.
Then again, this is more of a region specific, and state specific thing, specifically, the gulf states is where this was real prevalent. But, you still do see the pattern today, to a degree, with some obvious examples, and then some less so, though demographic changes have begun to alter this.
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