Our Mormon Brothers?

Reformed Evangelist ^ | May 14th, 2007 | Jeff Fuller

[colorcountry]

Post #60 and #62 (just in case you can't find it on your own)

Mormon’s used to teach that God had physical relations with Mary in order to impregnate her either by insemination or otherwise.

[DelphiUser]

All religions have some amount of error in them. Religion can’t save anyone. So far so Good. Any religion that rightly holds to the Biblical revelation of God and Jesus Christ is beneficial to man. If you believe in in inerrant Bible, why do you not believe in an inerrant religion, it was translated by men...

Any religion that departs from the Biblical revelation of God and Jesus Christ is heresy.

And you take a left turn, drive off of the road and into a tree. (IMHO of course)

There are so many interpretations of the bible that each of us here is unduobtably damned to hell by at least the doctrine of twelve religions, all of whom claim to be taking their doctrine straight from the Bible.

Mormon doctrine portrays Jesus Christ as a created being,
This is an incorrect interpretation of Mormon doctrine. Adam was made, Jesus was Begotten.

and spirit brother of the fallen angel Lucifer.
We are all children of God, Jesus said so, and it's throughout the Bible.

Saying "Spirit Brother to Lucifer" is a pejorative use of the a technically correct doctrine for Jesus is also your spirit brother and mine, as we are also Lucifer's spirit brother, so only listing Lucifer makes it a lie because by inference you are implying a relationship that we do not in fact believe, this twisted truth is then attributed to us.

What we say about Lucifer is also supported by the Bible.

This puts them outside the Christian faith - not me.

A) you are not the arbiter of that faith B) you are commanded not to judge specifically in this kind of an instance C) you are not using the "Standard" meaning of Christina, for in English a Christian is someone who believes in Christ, a Buddhist obviously someone who believes in Buddha, and a Taoist is someone who believes in the "path". Do not twist definitions and truth to make your point for that is Satan's methodology.

[FastCoyote]

[Now who is making up my motives, when I ask for clarifycation!]

The difference between clarification and insinuation are slight, you need to tread lightly with that game.

Here is an example:

[Could you clarify if you have ever been a liar.]

Clearly that is an insinuation, not a request for clarification. So please don’t try to imply that asking whether I was for running Mormons out of Utah was a clarification when it is a rather low insinuation.

I won’t play that game.

[JRochelle]

I was in Utah last week. Nice country but way too dry. A river in Zion National Park was nothing more than a stream.

I did manage to find good coffee there! On the other hand, coffee at Yellowstone was horrible. Fair Trade Organic crap. Burnt beyond belief.

[DelphiUser]

I’d seen this before, seemed founded to me, I didn’t know some Mormon’s didn’t know/believe God physically imgregnated Mary:

I have seen this berfore many times and it is not correct. Mormons beleive Mary was a Virgin V I R G I N (See the definition of Virgin here)

This is as repugnant to us as it is to Cahtolics and Christians the world over. To knowingly propogate an untruth about another religion is to lie, please stop saying this is our belief now.

[Greg F]

Brigham Young, second prophet and president of the LDS church said,

“The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).

So I have your outrage and Brigham Young’s words. Which speaks for the Mormon church?

[restornu]

FC I asked you to clarify if I misunderstood I also apologized to you for the confusion.

When someone apologized to me for confusion or misunderstanding I don’t carry on a grudge.

This is all I am saying you accept fine if you don’t fine!

Have a nice day!

[DelphiUser]

I specifically liked this piece some of the ancient Christian heresies, grin.
you mean herisies like what jesus believed? LOL! (Oh come on buy a sens of humor!) The Catholic Church, while recognizing most Protestant baptisms, does not recognize LDS baptisms precisely because of that different understanding of Jesus. And we don't recognize any of your se because you lack the authority to do it (see, it's fair, you can do whatever you wnat in your church while worshipping Jesus and so can we.)

So for me, it simply means that we disagree on our theology, much as I’d disagree with the Animists, Bahais or Hindus. I do have a problem with the redefining of many Christian terms and entities to the LDS definitions, but as long as I understand where you are coming from and what you mean when you say what you say, then we can certainly have civil discourse.

Let em make this easy for you, if I can.

Mormons are not Orthodox chriustians and do not claim to be, however, we are christians because we worship Jesus Christ.

Was that complicated? I hope I did not strain anyone with simply stating what has for some wierd reason been made intoa complex argument involving temporal mechanics and string theory. (It's funn but the lurkers have got to be fleeing the therad in droves when we get that far out, you know?) Thank you very much for being so free and open. I was beginning to think that Mormons were pretty secretive and had something to hide. :)

We are generally a modest group, but i don't think that is what you were talking about (grin)

The whole of Moromn cannon, and most of the works (those not prohibited by the copyright holders) of the church are avaialable on-line at LDS.ORG. The catholic church similarly has lots of stuff online at new advent.org. Most other religions are not so forth coming wiht both their strong points and their warts.

anyway, i look forward to many interestign conversations with you, if you are genuinely wondering about any topic, ping me ("when did you stop beating your wife" questions will be treated as they deserve to be >;^p)

[DelphiUser]

I went, I saw, I linked the post it think you were talking about.

I stand by my post, Mary is not God's wife, she is joseph's. Some times she will be spoken of as God's wife but that is because they are both the parents of Jesus, and it's kind of a unique position, but in the eternities, she will be joseph's wife.

The fahtering of Jesus was not an act of Sex because Mary was still a virgin when Jesus was born.

{said tongue in cheek - - if you could not tell}

Just remember to remove tounge from cheek before chewing, I forgot that once...

[restornu]

By your own definition I have a wretched spirit, I’m anti-mormon, and a stranger to you.

Lets go over these terms

Anti Mormon?

Is it not true you are anti Mormon when one knock a faith they also knock the people of that faith they can not be serperated when the LDS say they are One with the Father and the Son.

wretched spirit?

before you left the Church officially your spirit was somewhat docle.

stranger to you

Yes you are now a stranger when you leave the flock!

It is not flaming when you say you would not serve or rent if you the potential customer was LDS.

And this very statement of yours, if you knew one was LDS you would not serve or rent to them in your post, speaks of anti LDS sentiments!

Have a nice day!

[MarkBsnr]

Oh, no question about it. I recognize the LDS hierarchy’s authority to do as it sees fit within the confines of the LDS Church.

My reference to heresies are, of course, defined as the Catholic Church defines them. The incorporation of the Arian doctrine, for instance, within the LDS Church presents, in all probability ,an insurmountable gulf between us theologically.

The very nature of Jesus Christ as recognized by our two organizations also presents an insurmountable gulf. We understand that Jesus IS God, one with the Father and one with the Holy Spirit; and that the three are One. LDS apparently understands that Jesus is created by God as a lesser being and, while Jehovah of the Old Testament, is still subordinate. The issue may or may not be of importance to Mormons, but it sure is to mainstream Christianity.

I’ll try to avoid the ‘when did you stop beating your wife’ questions.

New Advent is a very good site for Catholic doctrine, certainly; the USCCB site and the Vatican site are quite authoritative. I must say that it is refreshing to converse with somebody that has a published doctrine and who can refer to it, rather than somebody whose complete theology is affected by the quality of their breakfast, the mood of their wife, the chewings out of their boss, and the quantities of whisky that they consumed the night before. But who all come equipped with a post-dunk get out of hell free card.

Modesty? True; the Mormon beauty pageants that I’ve seen pictures of have the young ladies in fairly revealing bikinis and g-strings, but the overall effect is drastically offset by those large t-shirts and bloomers that they wear underneath!!!!

[colorcountry]

Anti Mormon? Nope, I'm anti-Mormonism, I don't care what you call me. I am also anti-communism, anti-abortion, and anti stupidism....

wretched spirit? Nope, I think you complain more often about being wretched which means (according to Webster's Dictionary) deeply afflicted, dejected, or distressed in body or mind than I ever hope to be. I am healthy, happy, successful, wealthy and wise thanks to God.

I can't say that I've ever had a "docle" spririt even before I left activity in the LDS organization.

stranger to you....Yes you are now a stranger when you leave the flock!

When members of a cult turn their backs on former members and treat them like strangers it is called shunning and is a recognized tactic of cults.

It is not flaming when you say you would not serve or rent if you the potential customer was LDS.

Resty, you failed to understand my stance and it had nothing to do with this thread....you are trying to flame me, and you are still carrying on even though I have answered this question many times and have clairified it....I wish you could understand. I will pray that you will be blessed with the ability to understand my heart.

[Truth-Miner]

I hear crickets...

[restornu]

I am talking to you as another freeper so I am not shunning you!

Alright wretched wrong choice of word I should have said more hostile.

It is impossible to seperate a believer from their faith for they are one. So when one is anti a faith they are besmirch the believer too!

[DelphiUser]

You Said: Brigham Young, second prophet and president of the LDS church said,

“The birth of the Saviour was as natural as are the births of our children; it was the result of natural action. He partook of flesh and blood—was begotten of his Father, as we were of our fathers.” (Journal of Discourses, v. 8, p. 115).

There are many strange (strange in my opinion) beliefs surrounding the virgin birth, I have friends who tell me that Jesus was born without coming through the birth canal so Mary's hymen would not be broken, others tell me it was healed miraculously (they fight whenever they are together, but we get along if I am the only one there because they both think I am hopeless, Grin. I know of several religions that believe that Joseph never had sex with his wife.

The Birth was normal. The father hood was absolute, and unquestionable, the method was not sex, that's about it.

So I have your outrage and Brigham Young’s words. Which speaks for the Mormon church?

Both

Artificial insemination was not a known thing in BY's day.

Don't get mad at him for that.

My statements and his are in complete alignment, mine is just made with more knowledge of science.

Don't get mad, don't get outraged, that won't get you anything, understanding, now that gives perspective.

[Greg F]

Do you have a cite for the artificial insemination of Mary?

[colorcountry]

Your post made me LOL!

[Utah Girl]

The blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven, which is shedding innocent blood after ye have received my new and everlasting covenant, D&C 132: 26-27.

Now THIS I really don't understand!

I was always taught that the shedding of innocent blood was murder (ie: premeditated murder.) Killing in self-defense or during war would not be shedding of innocent blood. Abortion doesn't fall under this, althought the LDS Church does denounce abortion as an extremely grave sin. There are various theories floating around out there that shedding of innocent blood can be denying the Holy Ghost, which is having the knowledge and then turning against it, but I've also been taught that that knowledge is actually having seen God the Father and Jesus Christ, turning against that knowledge and actually persuading people to turn against Christ.

I know in my Internet search, sites came up that talked about blood atonement (which we don't believe in) and in the fact that we allegedly don't believe that when Christ shed his blood on the cross that it paid for our sins (we do believe that shedding His blood is the Atonment and did atone for our sins. However we also must repent of those sins, or suffer in the hereafter for those sins, and then receive our degree of glory...)

[Utah Girl]

I’ll try to read through the post and reply. But be warned, it may be stuff I’ve already responded to many times, so I will ping you.

[Utah Girl]

Beautiful cabin. We are selling our cabin, and need to improve the look of the foundation. Can I print out a copy of this and show it to my dad and brothers for ideas? Thanks!

BTW, I’ve been to your website, you do great work.