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IT’S COMING - MOTU PROPRIO - 7 JULY
What Does The Prayer Really Say? ^ | 6/27/2007 | Fr. John Zuhlsdorf

Posted on 06/27/2007 10:50:27 AM PDT by GCC Catholic

On Wednesday afternoon the Secretary of State, Tarcisio Card. Bertone gave the Motu Proprio to 30 bishops from around the world on Wednesday afternoon in the Apostolic Palace. The bishops were explicitly chosen and invited for this. (I am guessing that they were heads of Bishops Conferences.) Pope Benedict XVI later came to the meeting. The document is three pages long, though what the format is in not revealed.

It is clear from the way this was done that the Holy Father wanted to make sure that bishops got this document in this way, rather than having to read about it in the paper. I assume that what will happen now is that these bishops, if they are heads of conferences, will return home and distribute the document to the bishop members of the conference.

The general publication is 7 July.

Many thanks to Kath.net

(Excerpt) Read more at wdtprs.com ...


TOPICS: Catholic; Prayer; Religion & Culture; Worship
KEYWORDS: indult; motuproprio; notamarkomalleymotu; therealdeal; tridentine; tridentinemass
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To: Frank Sheed

Cyril and Methodius, patron saints of Europe.


41 posted on 06/27/2007 1:17:15 PM PDT by Nihil Obstat (Kyrie Eleison)
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To: monkapotamus

OMG IT COMING Yeah I saw that joke MONK ROFL in freepmail you send me


42 posted on 06/27/2007 1:18:40 PM PDT by SevenofNine ("We are Freepers, all your media belong to us, resistence is futile")
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To: Macoraba

I told our DRE last fall that I wanted to take my 9th graders on a road trip to experience TLM. He asked at which church and then said “are they in communion with Rome, is this a schismatic church”. Apparently he, who is in his mid-50’s, thinks anything in Latin is schismatique. Sigh.


43 posted on 06/27/2007 1:22:47 PM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: NYer
Once the Tridentine Liturgy has been freed for general use, it will grow slowly but surely. The sense of the sacred, the liturgical music, the sense of piety, coupled with missals providing the folks in the pews with simultaneous translations of Latin and vernacular and the choreography to keep the laity focused on the part of the Mass being celebrated.

It was not for nothing that the Novus Ordo had to be ruthlessly imposed. The restoration of the Traditional Mass will not be that difficult over time. This is particularly true if Tridentine Masses are not stretched out with every bell and whistle to be 90 minute affairs. Let there be such Masses for those who prefer them but let there also be crisply celebrated Trdentine Masses that were the norm in era past. The Novus Ordo is certainly a Mass but its rubrics are not culturally comparable to the Tridentine Mass.

According to our Unitarian second president (in the brilliant McCullough biography) John Adams, in a letter to his wife Abigail from Paris, wrote that the old Mass was a ritual of such power that he feared the result for non-Catholicism if a wide public witnessed it in our country. In those days, it was a crime to celebrate Mass in much of Congregationalist/Unitarian New England. I do not recall such words as those of Adams being expressed as to the Novus Ordo, although it is a valid Mass.

God bless you and yours. I trust that your recovery is moving along.

44 posted on 06/27/2007 1:23:28 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: NYer

I think we are going to see widespread interest right away, with a noticeable number of priests at least dipping their toes into the water over the next 6-12 months. Many will probably receive little or no positive feedback from either their bishops or their parishioners — as I trust they expect. Of these, many will be discouraged and give up the project. What’s needed is an appreciation of the intrinsic value of the traditional rite — an appreciation that fear of congregational displeasure is itself one of the bad fruits of the misbegotten reform, which degraded the Mass into an applause-seeking performance.

Lex orandi, etc.: Both clergy and laity need time to allow liturgy — any liturgy — to form them, either for good or else not-so-good. IMO a year or two of weekly celebration/attendance at the Extraordinary Rite will be needed before it starts to feel like “home”.


45 posted on 06/27/2007 1:24:22 PM PDT by Romulus (Quomodo sedet sola civitas plena populo.)
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To: Aquinasfan

Of course, Catholics readily translate “Dark Ages” wisely and accurately as “Age of Faith.”


46 posted on 06/27/2007 1:25:36 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Jaded
He asked at which church and then said “are they in communion with Rome, is this a schismatic church”.

I don't know your DRE at all. On the face of it, though, that's a legitimate question. Sadly, it's a necessary question as well. I've been fooled by "independent" chapels a couple of times.

47 posted on 06/27/2007 1:26:36 PM PDT by ArrogantBustard (Western Civilisation is aborting, buggering, and contracepting itself out of existence.)
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To: Macoraba
IF IT’S NOT LATIN IT’S NOT RITE

We need this in Latin on a t-shirt.

48 posted on 06/27/2007 1:31:17 PM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: PAR35

I have stumbled into a friendship with a small community with undeniably and unbelievably close and wholly unfettered ties to B16.

Of course I asked about the indult during the end of May: these people have no doubt that there will be a universal indult that allows any priest to offer the 1962 latin Mass regardless of the wishes of the local bishop.

Does that make it official? No. But given the news reports today there now seems to be no reason to doubt that the indult is real.


49 posted on 06/27/2007 1:33:59 PM PDT by Notwithstanding ("You are either with America in our time of need or you are not" - W? No, 'twas Sen. Hillary 9/12/01)
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To: Nihil Obstat

See #36


50 posted on 06/27/2007 1:34:03 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: Jaded
Your DRE may or may not be the right sort of person, but the question as to schism is quite reasonable in light of the existence of SSPX. Your parish may not wish to expose its children to the perfectly valid Tridentine Mass if it is simultaneously necessary to expose them to the schismatic SSPX clergy and congregants. There are plenty of venues for the Tridentine Mass in churches not in schism. For those of tender years or for adults of advanced gullibility, the SSPX may well be that “near occasion of sin” that penitents promise to avoid.
51 posted on 06/27/2007 1:34:51 PM PDT by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: Kolokotronis

May it please God, I believe so. But, then I am not the Pope who often plays 3-dimensional chess.

;-o)


52 posted on 06/27/2007 1:35:13 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: Jaded

It seems that a better slogan would be a positive version of your clever idea:

“IF IT’S LATIN, IT’S RITE!”


53 posted on 06/27/2007 1:35:38 PM PDT by Notwithstanding ("You are either with America in our time of need or you are not" - W? No, 'twas Sen. Hillary 9/12/01)
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To: BlackElk

I have heard a young, African-American priest tell me that he is dying to say the Tridentine Mass and that YOUNG PEOPLE are clamoring for it. This priest is a former Episcopalian who converted.

I also heard that the EWTN switchboards were flooded with people who witnessed the burial liturgies for Pope John Paul II in which Chant played a very prominent role. The question most often asked was, “How do I become Catholic?”

F


54 posted on 06/27/2007 1:39:45 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: BlackElk

The church we went to is one of the oldest in the diocese. He knew where it was as it is across the street from the baseball stadium. He did state that he didn’t know that RC churches were allowed to do TLM. VII and all that. He didn’t know what Novus Ordo meant either.

Right now our parish is a mess so very little surprises me coming from the staff. Kumbayah.


55 posted on 06/27/2007 1:39:54 PM PDT by Jaded ("I have a mustard- seed; and I am not afraid to use it."- Joseph Ratzinger)
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To: Notwithstanding

Laus Deo latine loqui coactus sum.

“Praise be to God, I have this compulsion
to speak Latin.”


56 posted on 06/27/2007 1:46:53 PM PDT by Frank Sheed (Fr. V. R. Capodanno, Lt, USN, Catholic Chaplain. 3rd/5th, 1st Marine Div., FMF. MOH, posthumously.)
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To: BlackElk

My husband and I took our twenty-three year old son to a Latin Mass in Pittsburgh last Christmas when he was home on leave. He was astounded at the reverence, the beauty of the TLM. He could not believe the difference. He had no idea what he had been missing all of these years. My husband, who is a convert, started attending with me last year, and he loves it.

I know there are three priests in our diocese who have asked our bishop for permission to say the TLM. He has flatly refused. I hope these three are still as determined once the MP is published.

I agree, it will take time for the TLM to re-establish itself, but I believe it will grow. We need it in these times in which we live, more than ever.


57 posted on 06/27/2007 1:48:00 PM PDT by sneakers
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To: Nihil Obstat

And my parish....
http://www.saintcyrils.org/


58 posted on 06/27/2007 1:54:59 PM PDT by netmilsmom (To attack one section of Christianity in this day and age, is to waste time.)
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To: Frank Sheed
The motu proprio should predict safeguards to guarantee the last word to the bishop, in case of a disagreement between faithful and priests on this matter.

I assume that this is mistranslated a bit ("predict"??). In any event, the meaning of this sentence is not 100% clear. However, even allowing for that fact, the overall "sense" of this statement causes me some concern. I believe that a large percentage of the Bishops in the U.S. will be parsing this document with a magnifying glass, looking for even the slightest loophole they can use to continue to ban the Tridentine Rite. I hope that the Pope doesn't give them an easy way to do it, otherwise they will.
59 posted on 06/27/2007 1:57:11 PM PDT by Zetman
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To: Notwithstanding
I hope that's true. But I was a little concerned by this statement, from post #28 above: The motu proprio should predict safeguards to guarantee the last word to the bishop, in case of a disagreement between faithful and priests on this matter.

I don't know if this is just bad translation, if it simply means that one of the bishops' requests was that it contain a mechanism giving the "last word" to the bishops, or if it means that this is actually part of the document.

Obviously, someone has got to have the last word. But does this mean that in a liberal diocese, if some flaky "liturgist" gets in a dispute with a priest who wishes to say the TLM, the liberal bishop still gets to come out and quash the priest?

If they've got an out like that in the document, the bishops are going to make sure the Traditional Rite is no more available after the MP than it was before.

60 posted on 06/27/2007 1:57:17 PM PDT by livius
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