Scenes from the German Lutheran Convention

Cafeteria is Closed ^ | June 10, 2007 | Gerald Augustinus

[NYer]

Literally "Evangelical church Day". The Lutherans have theirs as do the Catholics. Germany having been an ecclesial bother for quite a while, with the "we are church" segment among older people, the Lutherans nonetheless manage to outdumb them. Here photos from an "erotic service" in the "Carthusian church" (guessing it no longer belongs to Carthusians). People got to massage each other. One hopes Catholics will stick to the hand-holding. Admittedly, the man who unfortunately is archbishop of Los Angeles, might like this, he likes to have dancing and prancing going on around him after all.

After the dancer you see below floats down from the ceiling, accompanied by drums, jars of oil are distributed. People are supposed to anoint each other's wrists and foreheads and, while doing so, tell each other of God's love. Some people start to make out quite heavily, others giggle insecurely. At the end, the pastor invites people to walk out on bare feet as rose petals rain down. (this is how the official press release describes it)







A former Catholic priest (bad for him, good for the Church) and family therapist gave a talk denying the existence of the Devil, according to my partner website Kath.net. Denying his existence, he said that good and evil came from God, citing Matthew 5,45 (God letting the sun rise/rain fall on the just and the unjust). He said he imagined God appearing in the concentration camp Buchenwald, saying "I did this."

He also rejected the notion of a "clean conscience", calling it the "greatest enemy of love", because a person having one rejects others. A Lutheran pastor/talk show host also there claimed he wasn't responsible for his failings, since the church also taught that one isn't responsible for one's fortunes.

One more example - a discussion about sexuality, under the title "Can love be sin?" (title based on a Marlene Dietrich song). The official Lutheran press release states: "Between outdated moralistic concepts and too much liberty, Christians have to find a new approach towards sexuality." One theologian from the well-known University of Paderborn said "All forms of sexuality are God's creations, as long as they are voluntary". Important was to create together and freely. He earned applause. Another, evangelical (in the American sense) speaker got some applause but was also booed and whistled at. He said he was outraged by his son's textbook which, in sex ed, showed a man and a woman next to man/man and woman/woman.

Later on, it was discussed whether loveless sex was sin. The theologian from Paderborn said "not according to my concept of sin", since responsibility was possible in that context, too. The evangelical professor didn't think so. A sex therapist then said "In light of reality, one cannot expect that sex will be tied to love", therefore it was important to teach young people responsibility.

Teenagers were asked, too. A 15 year old girl said "Why is this supposed to be sin? You're born with it (sexuality) and prohibitions don't accomplish anything". Her 15 year old friend agreed: "The Bible says after all: Go and multiply."

[newgeezer]

Wow....These are Lutherans? Yikes...I thought they were one of the more common sense sects.

As with most denominations, there are liberal Lutherans (ELCA) and relatively conservative Lutherans (e.g. Mo. Synod, Wisc. Synod).

I'll leave it up to you to decide which ones these are. ;^)

Martin Luther can't be real pleased.

[trisham]

Is this what goes on in the San Francisco bathhouses?

****************

I sincerely hope the only answer to this question is a "yes" or a "no". No further information is wanted.

[GoLightly]

I will refrain from expressing my disgust.

Don't refrain. This is the battle before all of us & "churches" like this one are nurturing those who will be delivering us up.

[janereinheimer]

Speaking as a Lutheran, one of the most conservative sects, mind you — I’d have to go with the stupid part. This does not say worship to me.

I’m embarrassed for all my fellow Lutheran friends, too. They’d be appalled to see this, not to mention some pastor friends who’d have a heart attack to see this kind of a spectacle in their churches.

[siunevada]

It must be a German thing. Some of the “Catholics” are also enchanted with anything that appears to be ‘avant-garde’ and artsy.

[lightman]

Lutheran (In Name Only) Ping!

Thanks, Tony, for the ping and for the parenthesis!

[phatus maximus]

Those aren’t Lutherans in the classical sense, at least not in my view...

[phatus maximus]

WELS here, where do you go?

[NYer]

I’m embarrassed for all my fellow Lutheran friends, too. They’d be appalled to see this, not to mention some pastor friends who’d have a heart attack to see this kind of a spectacle in their churches.

Don't sweat it. Remember, this is in Germany and even then, is probably not representative of the Lutheran worship service.

This is not limited to the Lutheran Church. The Catholics have their share of kooky practicioners as well. We've all seen them on various threads posted to this forum. My suggestion would be to pray for their conversion of heart.

[lightman]

I’m embarrassed for all my fellow Lutheran friends, too. They’d be appalled to see this, not to mention some pastor friends who’d have a heart attack to see this kind of a spectacle in their churches

To this ELCA member the phrase "abomination of desecration" comes to mind.

[NYer]

Actually, there's far worse than this 'worship' service. In case you missed it, then take a gander over at Trinity Episcopal Church in New York. They claim that they have done the first ever Clown Eucharist.

Streaming video at this link.

[lightman]

Actually, there's far worse than this 'worship' service. In case you missed it, then take a gander over at Trinity Episcopal Church in New York

I've seen that...and some fairly bizarre distortions of the western rite in pictures from the Religious Education Conference sponsored by the Los Angeles Archdiocese.

[redgolum]

Things like this make me glad great grandpa got on the boat and then the train to Nebraska.

He left because the state Lutheran/Reformed church was getting nuts then (1860’s), and it has only gotten worse.

There are still quite a few orthodox (lower case o) Lutheran’s in Germany, but most are not part of the state church.

[redgolum]

Yeah, no one has the market cornered on the fruits and nuts.

Things like this make me realize that we all (Lutheran’s and Catholics) have a lot more in common at times than is comfortable. I would rather that both groups were filled with devout followers of Christ, and that we could all debate theology over brats and beer.

[Conservativegreatgrandma]

Let me assure you there are Lutherans and then there are Lutherans. Your wife must have gone to an ELCA church. There is a world of difference betweeen the ELCA and the Lutheran Church Missouri Synod, which we attend. She needs to look for an LCMS church. Ours is very strictly Bible based and we love it.

[stayathomemom]

My (several greats) grandfather left Germany in the 1850's because he and other pastors could no longer worship as they thought proper. Hence, the founding of the LC-MS. My husband and I are members of a WELS congregation.

It looks like these folks are trying to rationalize away their need for the Savior. No sin, no need for a savior. This is dangerous stuff, if you ask me. They could benefit from a review of the "What does this mean" portions of the Catechism.