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To: pjr12345

You wrote: “Popes no longer speak for the RCC?”

No pope ever approved of the sale of indulgences as a proper act. It was, in fact, a violation of canon law.

“As for the purchased masses and candles... of course they aren’t bought (wink, wink!).”

I know of plenty of people, including myself, who have had Masses said and no money was exchanged in the process.

“And just because the vernacular with the laity includes the language “why don’t you buy a mass for poor ole uncle felix; it will mean a lot to aunt esther”, doesn’t mean that they really believe they’re making a purchase.”

I have never heard any Catholic say, “buy” a Mass. I have heard, my whole life long, “Have a Mass said.”

“The defenders of the “faith” will be judged more harshly because of their responsibility.”

I have nothing to worry about in that regard. I don’t spread lies. You might want to think twice about what you spread - especially since you failed to provide a single actual example of what you claimed.


432 posted on 06/02/2007 11:17:09 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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To: vladimir998; pjr12345; ears_to_hear; xzins; editor-surveyor; 1000 silverlings; HarleyD; ...
No pope ever approved of the sale of indulgences as a proper act.

No pope? Nada?

Maybe it just depends on what the proper definition of "proper" is.

CREED OF POPE PIOUS IV

"The "Professio fidei Tridentina", also known as the "Creed of Pope Pius IV", is one of the four authoritative Creeds of the Catholic Church. It was issued on November 13, 1565 by Pope Pius IV in his bull "Iniunctum nobis" under the auspices of the Council of Trent (1545 - 1563). It was subsequently modified slightly after the First Vatican Council (1869 - 1870) to bring it inline with the dogmatic definitions of the Council. The major intent of the Creed was to clearly define the Catholic faith against Protestantism. At one time it was used by Theologians as an oath of loyalty to the Church and to reconcile converts to the Church, but it is rarely used these days....

I also affirm that the power of indulgences was left by Christ in the Church, and that the use of them is most wholesome to Christian people...

461 posted on 06/02/2007 12:33:39 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: vladimir998
I don’t spread lies.

Sale of Indulgences Affirmed (1343)

It was on this date, January 27, 1343, that Pope Clement VI issued a bull, Unigenitus, officially reaffirming that the Catholic Church can grant remission of sin through indulgences. The bull says,

Upon the altar of the Cross Christ shed of His blood not merely a drop, though this would have sufficed, by reason of the union with the Word, to redeem the whole human race, but a copious torrent ... thereby laying up an infinite treasure for mankind. This treasure He neither wrapped up in a napkin nor hid in a field, but entrusted to Blessed Peter, the key-bearer, and his successors, that they might, for just and reasonable causes, distribute it to the faithful in full or in partial remission of the temporal punishment due to sin.

In other words, says the Catholic Encyclopedia, "the source of indulgences is constituted by the merits of Christ and the saints." The scheme is fortuitous on a number of levels: the Christian can avoid the expense of a journey to Rome in a Jubilee Year (first instituted by Boniface VIII in 1300 and carried into the modern era by John Paul II as recently as 2000); the horrific doctrine of Hell is mitigated (except for non-Catholics) by the invention of Purgatory, where minor sins can be expunged before going to heaven; and the Catholic Church can make piles of money by "taxing" the granting of "remittance" of sin: that is, granting a partial pardon, or shortening of torture, in the afterlife.

.....

The chief abusers, after indulgences were instituted in large measure by Boniface, were the anti-pope John XXIII (1400-1415), described by the Council of Constance as a seller of benefices, bulls, sacraments, ordinations, consecrations and anything else that would bring in money, Leo X (1513-1521), who condemned Luther and dispensed indulgences to build St. Peter's in Rome[5], and Clement VIII (1592-1605), a notorious nepotist, who showered his relatives with gold from sold indulgences.

http://www.ronaldbrucemeyer.com/rants/0127b-almanac.htm

494 posted on 06/02/2007 2:25:13 PM PDT by pjr12345 (I'm a Christian Conservative Republican, NOT a Republican Conservative Christian.)
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