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To: vladimir998
That's not true. We have NEVER taught that men can "earn their right standing before God." That's utter nonsense. If you want to disagree or attack what we believe in, fine, but why completely make up something that is untrue? Why lie?

"Lie?" I'm working from RCC documents and the writings of RCC apologists.

From the article I posted...

John Hardon, author of The Question and Answer Catholic Catechism (which carries the official authorization of the Vatican) says this:

•How does the Church communicate the merits of Christ's mercy to sinners?

The Church communicates the merits of Christ's mercy to sinners through the Mass and the sacraments and all the prayers and good works of the faithful.


Trent taught that the righteousness which justifies is the work of the regenerated believer cooperating with the grace that Christ merited. So justification is equated with regeneration and sanctification. Rome does not acknowledge sanctification and justification as separate works of God in salvation. It makes human works the basis for justification which merit eternal life:

Justification...is not the remission of sins merely, but also the sanctification and renewal of the inward man. If any one saith, that the good works of the one that is justified are in such manner the gifts of God, that they are not also the good merits of him that is justified, by the good works which he performs through the grace of God and the merit of Jesus Christ, whose living member he is, and does not truly merit increase in grace, eternal life, and the attainment of eternal life, if so be, that he depart in grace, and an increase in glory, let him be anathema (The Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent. Found in Philip Schaff, The Creeds of Christendom (Grand Rapids: Baker, 1910), Decree on Justification, Chapter VII, Canons X, XXXII).

Ludwig Ott emphasizes this in these words:

Justification is the declaration of the righteousness of the believer before the judgment seat of Christ...The Council of Trent teaches that for the justified eternal life is both a gift or grace promised by God and a reward for his own good works and merits... According to Holy Writ, eternal blessedness in heaven is the reward...for good works performed on this earth, and rewards and merit are correlative concepts (Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Rockford: Tan, 1974), pp.254, 264).

356 posted on 06/01/2007 11:44:00 PM PDT by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg

You wrote:

“”Lie?” I’m working from RCC documents and the writings of RCC apologists.”

Nonsense. Let me demonstrate:

“good works of the faithful.”

Started by Christ IN US.

“It makes human works the basis for justification which merit eternal life.”

The above statement is NOT from either any “RCC documents” nor “the writings of RCC apologists.” It was cut and pasted from an anti-catholic website called Jesus-is-Lord.com and does not represent what the Church teaches. So far, you are 0 for 2. Let’s try again:

“justified, by the good works which he performs”

I have a copy of the Canons and Decrees of the Council of Trent. And your Schaff translation seems to be a serious reduction of about ten pages of text. Knowing you as little as I do, I still know you probably just cut and pasted this from an anti-Catholic website. When you post the passage as it actually stands and can list where it really comes from (in Trent) I’ll bother trying to look it up again.

“Justification is the declaration of the righteousness of the believer.”

You got this from Jesus-is-Lord.com as well. Cut and paste. No genuine research, huh? No surprise there.

Notice the citation you posted?:

“(Ludwig Ott, Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Rockford: Tan, 1974), pp.254, 264).”

One quote drawn from over ten pages? Ten pages?

I can see right away that the quote you underlined was taken out of context. I’m looking at the page right now. The passage doesn’t even get the words right: “...by works, the good works proceeding from Christian Faith; by justification, the declaration of the righteousness of the Christian before the judgment seat of God.”

The anti-Catholics you borrowed this cut and paste from dropped the previous 4 lines of the text, and dropped the word “Christian” as well. Strange, is it not, that your anti-Catholic buddies don’t want to show you the whole context or actually get the passage right with all of its words?

As I said, we have NEVER taught that men can “earn their right standing before God.” That’s utter nonsense. Anti-Catholics have to create phony renderings of our books to even get close to that.

Thanks for proving my point.


368 posted on 06/02/2007 3:43:06 AM PDT by vladimir998 (Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ. St. Jerome)
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