Is Mormonism Christian?

Institute For Religious Research ^ | 1999 | Institute for Religious Research

[pby]

Is Mormonism Christian?

A Comparison of Mormonism and Historic Christianity Copyright © 1999 Institute for Religious Research. All rights reserved.

Is Mormonism Christian? This may seem like a puzzling question to many Mormons as well as to some Christians. Mormons will note that they include the Bible among the four books which they recognize as Scripture, and that belief in Jesus Christ is central to their faith, as evidenced by their official name, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Furthermore, many Christians have heard the Mormon Tabernacle Choir sing Christian hymns and are favorably impressed with the Mormon commitment to high moral standards and strong families. Doesn’t it follow that Mormonism is Christian?

[snip]

[AFPhys]

I stated: “I want to see ... self-consistency in his life. That out of the way, I want to know whether the values he expresses by the way he lives are coincident with values I believe are important. Romney, to take one case, easily passes both of my tests.”

Romney, again to take one prominent case on one issue regarding VALUES, is definitely Pro-Life, as am I. I accept that his view can have changed about this issue, and I’ve witnessed many others come around with time, and believe that is not only acceptable, that is GREAT! (Look at how fervently converted smokers and alcoholics can advocate against those lifestyles!)

As for the others you two mentioned: “Kuccinish”, I don’t recognize. Thompson (either of them), Huckabee, Brownback -— all are acceptable to me and they may eventually be ‘my guy’. “[A] wiccan or a muslim or a satanist” don’t pass my second test of values. The muslim failing due to my ‘read’ that to be a good muslim you have to accept the jihad mentality and my disagreement with the statement “Islam is a religion of peace”.

I won’t demand that a presidential candidate be a Christian, but I will demand that he ACT in a manner consistent with Christianity.

[N3WBI3]

Point of note, in verse 15 the work adoption (huiothesia) is a compound of son (Huios) and the verb to make (Tithemi) This is adoption as we htink of it. We are Gods children in as much as he adopted us (Christians) not his spirit children produced on Kolab through spirit intercourse.

[zerosix]

Absolutely NOT. The ONLY "work" that was done to achieve our eternal Salvation, was done by God, through Jesus Christ, who died once for ALL (who believe, accept and take upon themselves the name of their Savior, Jesus Christ.

That is not at all to say that the "forgiven" humans are not subject to continuing in sin, we are and we need to continue to "grow in Christ" and in the knowledge of "Christlike living." Only God knows the heart of His creation, therefore, only God knows that when we pray and ask to be forgiven for our "past" sins, we were sincere.

I heard a bible teaching preacher once tell of a man who phoned him and asked him if he had truly been forgiven of his sins and if he had become a follower of Christ.

The preacher said, "Have you changed from the man you were, let me ask that question of your wife, who would know the best?" The man answered in tears saying, "You don't need to ask her as I have not changed one little bit, I'm the same man as before, so I must have not been sincere."

Lastly, many non-Christians might not ever consider becoming Christian, as they have been surrounded by too many who are the worst possible examples of that which we profess to believe.

[N3WBI3]

Funny I attend a baptist church and I have heard it said ‘Even Satan believes in Jesus but if you want to be saved you have to make him your lord”

Stop misrepresenting what the Baptist church says.

[MarkBsnr]

Please understand, though, that I do not have an unfavourable view of the Mormons that I have met. To a man (and woman), they have all (well with one exception) been good, upright and decent people, with a strong work ethic and a devotion to family.

With the exception of attempting to recuit me (both for a strong baritone singing voice and a last name that is quite common in the LDS community), they have not been overly zealous to the point of annoyance. I like them a lot.

I disagree vehemently with the theology, and do not regard them as Christian because of their view of who Christ is, what He is, and the idea that men will become as He is. But I like them as moral human beings, a lot.

[Logophile]

Ahhh but When I attended a Nazerine church I never heard them say ‘we are the only Christians everyone else is wrong.

Well, I do not hear Mormons saying that either. Most of us will acknowledge others as Christians, even as we disagree with them on particular points of doctrine.

But Joseph Smith did say that and in doing so excluded himself from having a broader community.

I think Joseph Smith was far less rigid about this than you suppose. He objected to the various creeds of Christendom because he thought them to be too limiting:

I cannot believe in any of the creeds of the different denominations, because they all have some things in them I cannot subscribe to, though all of them have some truth; I want to come up into the presence of God, and learn all things; but the creeds set up stakes, and say, "Hitherto shalt thou come, and no further;" which I cannot subscribe to. (History of the Church 6:57).

However, Joseph Smith was happy to acknowledge that other faiths possessed truth. In fact, he said that good Mormons must seek out and acknowledge truth, wherever it is to be found:

Have the Presbyterians any truth? Yes. Have the Baptists, Methodists, etc., any truth? Yes. They all have a little truth mixed with error. We should gather all the good and true principles in the world and treasure them up, or we shall not come out true "Mormons." (History of the Church 5:517).

Furthermore, Joseph Smith strongly believed in freedom of religion. He said,

The Saints can testify whether I am willing to lay down my life for my brethren. If it has been demonstrated that I have been willing to die for a Mormon, I am bold to declare before Heaven that I am just as ready to die in defending the rights of a Presbyterian, a Baptist, or a good man of any other denomination; for the same principle which would trample upon the rights of the Latter-day Saints would trample upon the rights of the Roman Catholic or of any other denomination who may be unpopular and too weak to defend themselves." (Documentary History of the Church Vol.5, p. 498.)

Gordon B. Hinckley, the current President of the Church, has urged us to respect those of other faiths:

Be respectful of the opinions and feelings of other people. Recognize their virtues; don't look for their faults. Look for their strengths and their virtues, and you will find strength and virtues that will be helpful in your own life. (Dew, Go Forward with Faith: The Biography of Gordon B. Hinckley. Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 1996)

President Hinckley has also said,

There is no need in any land for conflict between diverse groups of any kind. Let there be taught in the homes of people that we are all children of God, our Eternal Father, and that as surely as there is fatherhood, there can and must be brotherhood. ("Four Simple Things to Help Our Families and Our Nations," Liahona (June 1996): ),

[SeaHawkFan]

When did the Mormon church stop teaching that all other churches are an abomination?

[pby]

This is what Brigham Young had to say about his authority, the Mormon Church as the only church (other than the devil's), Adam as God, and so forth (it looks like you two are at odds):

"I am here to give this people, called Latter-day Saints, counsel to direct them in the path of life...If there is any elder here, or any member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, who can bring up the first idea, the first sentence that I have delivered to the people as counsel that is wrong, I really wish they would do it; but they cannot do it, for the simple reason that I have never given counsel that is wrong; this is the reason" (Journal of Discourses 16:161).

Do you agree that Brigham Young has never given counsel that is wrong?

"I know just as well what to teach this people and just what to say to them and what to do in order to bring them into the celestial kingdom, as I know the road to my office. It is just as plain and easy. The Lord is in our midst. He teaches the people continually. I have never yet preached a sermon and sent it out to the children of men, that they may not call Scripture. Let me have the privilege of correcting a sermon, and it is as good Scripture as they deserve" (Journal of Discourses 13:95).

Do you agree with Brigham Young that everyone of his sermons was Scripture?

"You have heard me say, a great many times, that there is not that man or woman in this Church, and there never was and never will be, who turn up their noses at the counsel that is given them from the First Presidency, but who, unless they repent of and refrain from such conduct will eventually go out of the Church and go to hell, every one of them" (Journal of Discourses 17:159).

Will Mormons go to hell for turning up their noses at the First Presidency's counsel on polygamy, and so forth?

"Some would have us believe that God is present everywhere. It is not so" (Journal of Discourses 6:345).

"Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our father Adam came into the garden of Eden, he came into it with a celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives, with him. He helped to make and organize this world. He is MICHAEL, the Archangel, the ANCIENT OF DAYS! about whom holy men have written and spoken—HE is our FATHER and our GOD, and the only God with whom WE have to do" (Journal of Discourses 1:50).

Do you agree with Brigham Young that Adam is God and that he had sex with Mary to conceive Jesus and that this belief of Young's is Scripture?

"How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter-day Saints in regard to one particular doctrine which is revealed to them, and which God revealed to me – namely that Adam is our father and God" (Deseret News, 6/18/1873, p.308).

Regarding Christian churches

We ask where Christ's Church is. My conclusive answer is, if the Latter-day Saints do not constitute the Kingdom of God on the earth, the Church of Jesus Christ, it is no where to be found upon it" (Journal of Discourses 2:179).

"Will all the people be damned who are not Latter-day Saints? Yes, and a great many of them, except they repent speedily. I will say further, that many of the Latter-day Saints, except they learn their lessons better, will be judged in the same way. That is my candid opinion" (Journal of Discourses 1:339).

Do you agree with Brigham Young that all people outside of the Mormon Church will be damned?

"The Christian world, so-called, are heathens as to their knowledge of the salvation of God" (Journal of Discourses 8:171).

"Should you ask why we differ from other Christians, as they are called, it is simply because they are not Christians as the New Testament defines Christianity" (Journal of Discourses 10:230).

"There are only two churches on the earth—only two parties. God leads the one, the devil the other" (Journal of Discourses 18:215).

How come you don't agree with Brigham Young on this issue? Is it not Scripture (remember...Young stated that he was never wrong!)?

"We declare it to all the inhabitants of the earth from the valleys in the tops of these mountains that we are the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints—not a church but the church—and we have the doctrine of life and salvation for all the honest-in-heart in all the world. Who else has got it? Is it to be found in the creeds of Christendom? It is not" (Journal of Discourses, 12:173).

"The Christian world, I discovered, was like the captain and crew of a vessel on the ocean without a compass, and tossed to and fro whithersoever the wind listed to blow them. When the light came to me, I saw that all the so-called Christian world was grovelling in darkness" (Journal of Discourses 5:73).

"Now I would ask the Christian world a question, and in doing so I do not mean to reflect upon, or cast an insinuation in the least derogatory to, all Christians, or to any who believe in God; but I would ask them, what do you know of God? Take all the divines on the face of the earth and place them in this stand, and beyond the attributes of God they know nothing of Him; they are entirely ignorant of His person. There is the difference between the various religious sects of the Christian world and the Latter-day Saints" (Journal of Discourses 13:144).

Regarding the Jews

"Can you make a Christian of a Jew? I tell you, nay. If a Jew comes into this Church, and honestly professes to be a Saint, a follower of Christ, and if the blood of Judah is in his veins, he will apostatize. He may have been born and bred a Jew, have the face of a Jew, speak the language of the Jews, and have attended to all the ceremonies of the Jewish religion, and have openly professed to be a Jew all his days; but I will tell you a secret—there is not a particle of the blood of Judaism in him, if he has become a true Christian, a Saint of God; for if there is, he will most assuredly leave the Church of Christ, or that blood will be purged out of his veins" (Journal of Discourses 2:142

Ouch...Do you agree with Brigham Young on this? Was he wrong on the Jews?

[bremenboy]

Stop misrepresenting what the Baptist church says.

Sam Morris, Baptist preacher in Stamford, TX wrote an article entitled, "Do A Christian's sins damn his souls"? Here is a quote from the article: "We take the position that a Christian's sins do not damn his soul. The way a Christian lives, what he says, his character, his conduct, or his attitude toward other people have nothing whatever to do with the salvation of his souls...And all the sins he may commit from murder to idolatry will not make his soul in any more danger.

Bill Foster, Baptist preacher in Louisville KY made this comment: "If I killed my wife and mother and debauched a thousand women I couldn't go to hell--in fact, I couldn't go to hell if I wanted to."

Gen 3:3 But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

Gen 3:4 And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die:

[pby]

Wow...Nazarene then Baptist...

Interesting.

[Logophile]

When did the Mormon church stop teaching that all other churches are an abomination?

We never did teach that, so far as I know. Joseph Smith, quoting God, said that the creedal statements of the churches were abominations, for the reason explained in Post 126. This is not to say that we consider all of the beliefs and practices of other churches to be abominable.

In my previous post, I quoted Joseph Smith and Gordon B. Hinckley. Here is what Brigham Young was quoted as saying:

"Mormonism" so-called, embraces every principle pertaining to life and salvation for time and eternity. No matter who has it. If the infidel has got truth it belongs to "Mormonism." The truth and sound doctrine possessed by the sectarian world, and they have a great deal, all belong to this church. As for their morality many of them are morally just as good as we are. All that is good, lovely, and praiseworthy belongs to this church and kingdom. (Journal of Discourses 11:375).

President Young was also quoted as follows:

It was the occupation of Jesus Christ and his Apostles to propagate the Gospel of salvation and the principles of eternal life to the world, and it is our duty and calling, as ministers of the same salvation and Gospel, to gather every item of truth and reject every error. Whether a truth be found with professed infidels, or with the Universalists, or the Church of Rome, or the Methodists, the Church of England, the Presbyterians, the Baptists, the Quakers, the Shakers, or any other of the various and numerous different sects and parties, all of whom have more or less truth, it is the business of the Elders of this Church (Jesus, their elder brother being at their head,) to gather up all the truths in the world pertaining to life and salvation . . . (JD 7:283).

[SeaHawkFan]

Will be intersted in seeing where this discussion goes.

[pby]

President Hinckley also said this:

In bearing testimony of Jesus Christ, President Hinckley spoke of those outside the Church who say Latter-day Saints ‘do not believe in the traditional Christ. "No, I don't. The traditional Christ of whom they speak is not the Christ of whom I speak. For the Christ of whom I speak has been revealed in this the Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. He together with His Father, appeared to the boy Joseph smith in the year 1820, and when Joseph left the grove that day, he knew more of the nature of God than all the learned ministers of the gospel of the ages. (Church News, week ending June 20, 1998, page 7)

From the lips of your own president...we are not talking about the same Christ...That puts us in two different camps.

[P-Marlowe]

Before you began your life on Earth, you lived with your Heavenly Father as one of His spirit children. Although it was a joyful existence, God knew that you could not continue to progress unless you left Him for a time. He allowed you to come to Earth, where you would gain a physical body and would have experiences that would help you to learn and grow, fulfilling the purpose of the plan of salvation: to help you become more like your Heavenly Father. According to the plan, you could not continue to progress continually without the opportunity to enter mortality and receive a physical body....

Thank you Mark. That was a nice story.

Now do any of the other children have any stories to share?

[pby]

See John 6:39-44

[Logophile]

From the lips of your own president...we are not talking about the same Christ...That puts us in two different camps.

Oh please, it is a figure of speech. You don't really think that there are two Christs, do you?

[pby]

See post #128.

They did teach that.

When did the teaching get officially reversed? Have any citations?

[kidd]

I guess they are in the same boat in that I’m uncomfortable calling either denomination a Christian. Both of them have made fundamental changes to the Bible.

They are different in that one is a nonsense change and the other is a secular change.

GHW and GW Bush are Methodists. Jeb Bush is Catholic.

[Logophile]

Will be intersted in seeing where this discussion goes.

Alas, it seems to be going much the same way as these discussions usually go.

[pby]

That is not how I took what Hinckley stated.

I took it as Mormons believe that they worship the true Christ and Christians worship a false Christ based on false beliefs.