The Reality of Romanism

The Riddleblog ^ | May 10, 2007 | Kim Riddlebarger

[Gamecock]

Reading Francis Beckwith's interview with David Neff in Christianity Today, reminded me of how idyllic the Roman church can seem in the minds of those who embrace it (Click here: Q&A: Francis Beckwith | Christianity Today | A Magazine of Evangelical Conviction).

But then this news report appeared today which gives a much different picture of the supposed glories of Romanism (Click here: Pope to canonize first Brazilian saint - Yahoo! News).

All discussion of justification, the authority of Scripture, and reciting the Creed aside, the Pope is heading to Brazil to canonize Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao, a Franciscan monk who is credited with 5000 miraculous healings. Over 1 million people are expected to be in attendance. The healings supposedly come as a result of swallowing rice paper pills prepared by the monk over two hundred years ago. According to the AP news report . . .

"The Vatican has officially certified the medical cases of two Brazilian women as divinely inspired miracles that justify the sainthood of Galvao. Both of these women spoke of their faith with The Associated Press, claiming that their children would not be alive today were it not for the tiny rice-paper pills that Friar Galvao handed out two centuries ago.

Although the friar died in 1822, the tradition is carried on by Brazilian nuns who toil in the Sao Paulo monastery where Galvao is buried, preparing thousands of the Tic Tac-sized pills distributed free each day to people seeking cures for all manner of ailments. Each one is inscribed with a prayer in Latin: `After birth, the Virgin remained intact. Mother of God, intercede on our behalf.'

Sandra Grossi de Almeida, 37, is one such believer. She had a uterine malformation that should have made it impossible for her to carry a child for more than four months. But in 1999, after taking the pills, she gave birth to Enzo, now 7. `I have faith," Grossi said, pointing to her son. I believe in God, and the proof is right here.'

Nearly 10 years before that, Daniela Cristina da Silva, then 4 years old, entered a coma and suffered a heart attack after liver and kidney complications from hepatitis A. `The doctors told me to pray because only a miracle could save her,' Daniela's mother Jacyra said recently. `My sister sneaked into the intensive care unit and forced my daughter to swallow Friar Galvao's pills.'"

So, if you "return home" to Rome, you get the whole ball of wax, including the beatification of saints who give out Tic-Tac size rice-paper pills which supposedly heal. And Pope Benedict XVI will be there to bless it all.

By the way, confessional Protestants affirm the historical evangelical doctrine of justification by grace alone, through faith alone, on account of Christ alone, and the full authority of Scripture. And yes, we even recite the Creed every Lord's Day and we use a biblical-text based liturgy which is quite similar to that described by Justin Martyr in the second century.

Too bad Dr. Beckwith didn't consider a confessional Protestant church before embracing Romanism. Now he's stuck with Antonio de Sant'Anna Galvao and his rice-paper healing pills.

[irishtenor]

Those Brits, what can you do?

[Risky-Riskerdo]

The burden of proof is on the affirmative.

"Unproven" and "lie" are not synonyms.

The proof is on the board. The accused has not used the terms he has been wrongly accused of. To continue to insist otherwise therefore is a lie, a deliberate lie at that, and should be repented of, apologized for and forgiveness sought for being a false witness.

[Alex Murphy]

Respectfully, you're not getting it. We are DELIGHTED to testify that neither Calvin nor Luther performed any miracles.

And as a bonus, we'll stipulate that neither man should be made a saint of the Roman Catholic Church.

Plus, if you call in the next hour, we'll throw in a free set of attractive bobbleheads, suitable for home or car. Goes great with any decor! Makes a perfect graduation gift.

[Running On Empty]

“I wanna be a ballerina”

Yes, it sure is nice to twirl in a tutu and always be on your toes. :-)

[AlbionGirl]

By the way, GC, you're a little late with posting this piece, my friend. I read it last week, over at the Boar's Head Tavern.

He looks almost plastic, and I know you probably will think a little worse of me because of it, but he used to be fun to watch while you were high.

[MarkBsnr]

Nice place they’ve got there.

Someday I’ll get there. I’ve been in the Dom in Koln, but haven’t made it to Rome yet.

[smpb]

The Catholic Church does not say that it takes miracles to become a saint. The word “saint” comes from Latin “sanctus”, which means “holy”. One can apply it to everyone who is holy, living or dead. There is a narrower meaning of the term, namely “those who are in heaven”. That is presumably a vast multitude. In the Catholic Church there is a “Feast of All Saints” celebrating and honoring all those in heaven. Finally, there is the narrowest meaning of the term, which is those who are held up by the Church as examples of sancity -— the “canonized” saints. The Catholic Church believes that the “canonized” saints are a tiny subset of all the saints in heaven.

[Risky-Riskerdo]

The first on record to use the pre-fix of "Roman" with catholic, was pope Hormisdas I in his treatise, "Sicut Rationi" on grace and free will, in which Hormisdas attached "Roman" to "catholic" at the protest of the eastern churches on the basis that it supplanted the term "catholic" as universal, and was making it particular.

“What the Roman, that is the Catholic, Church follows and preserves concerning free will and the grace of God can be abundantly recognised in the various books of the blessed Augustine, and especially in those to Hilary and Prosper, but the prominent chapters are contained in the ecclesiastical archives and if these are lacking there, we establish them.” ----\Sicut Rationi, AD. 520

============================================================

Therefore, the Roman Catholics who whine about "Roman" are making a big to do about nothing since one of their own started it.

[MarkBsnr]

I had forgotten about Tilton.

I remember the hilarity of watching Herbert W. Armstrong and his illustrations of Revelation which looked more and more like bad science fiction as I grew older.

http://www.cogeternal.org/?gclid=CJfS-quDlowCFSj0Igod90bQeA says that:

Church of God, The Eternal

is a remnant of the Worldwide Church of God still teaching the original doctrines first proclaimed by Mr. Herbert W. Armstrong.

We accept these doctrines as the divine revelation of Jesus Christ to His Church of the last days, given through the inspiration of a chosen servant; teachings that were blessed by God, producing an annual growth of 30% over four decades, with incredible blessings in the lives of those who practiced the same in faith.

What makes this remnant group truly different from the 300+ splinter groups of our parent organization? No one else believes what Mr. Armstrong originally taught about Truth—that it comes only by revelation to a chosen servant, and even that servant has no authority to change what Christ gave! Read it for yourself: From The Plain Truth, July 1965

---

And he grew up a Quaker too. Just like Richard Nixon?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Romanoids

LOL. That could work.

Anyway, I agree with Monty Python, the Romans gave us many fine things, like the aquaducts, roads, lavatories.

Now if they could just get the Latin straight, they'd be cookin'.

•Sola Fide

•Sola Scriptura

•Sola Gratia

•Solus Christus

•Soli Deo Glory

THE FIVE SOLAS OF THE REFORMATION

[George W. Bush]

I don’t get it: what is so unbiblical about miracles? Or is it just “Roman” miracles? By the bye, the word “Roman” if used to mean Catholic is a pejorative term, just like “Romish”, “Romanist”, “papist”, “papistical”, etc. That kind of epithet is best left back in the times of the religious wars. The official name of the Church is “Catholic Church”, not “Roman Catholic Church”.

Nonsense. Evidently, your reading and education are quite neglected.

Via CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Roman Catholic:

Although belief in the "holy Church" was included in the earliest form of the Roman Creed, the word Catholic does not seem to have been added to the Creed anywhere in the West until the fourth century. Kattenbusch believes that our existing form is first met with in the "Exhortatio" which he attributes to Gregorius of Eliberis (c. 360). It is possible, however, that the creed lately printed by Dom Morin (Revue Bénédictine, 1904, p. 3) is of still earlier date. In any case the phrase, "I believe in the holy Catholic Church" occurs in the form commented on by Nicetas of Remesiana (c. 375). With regard to the modern use of the word, Roman Catholic is the designation employed in the legislative enactments of Protestant England, but Catholic is that in ordinary use on the Continent of Europe, especially in Latin countries. Indeed, historians of all schools, at least for brevity's sake, frequently contrast Catholic and Protestant, without any qualification. In England, since the middle of the sixteenth century, indignant protests have been constantly made against the "exclusive and arrogant usurpation" of the name Catholic by the Church of Rome. The Protestant, Archdeacon Philpot, who was put to death in 1555, was held to be very obstinate on this point (see the edition of his works published by the Parker Society); and among many similar controversies of a later date may be mentioned that between Dr. Bishop, subsequently vicar Apostolic, and Dr. Abbot, afterwards Bishop of Salisbury, regarding the "Catholicke Deformed", which raged from 1599 to 1614. According to some, such combinations as Roman Catholic, or Anglo-Catholic, involve a contradiction in terms. (See the Anglican Bishop of Carlisle in "The Hibbert Journal", January, 1908, p. 287.) From about the year 1580, besides the term papist, employed with opprobrious intent, the followers of the old religion were often called Romish or Roman Catholics. Sir William Harbert, in 1585, published a "Letter to a Roman pretended Catholique", and in 1587 an Italian book by G.B. Aurellio was printed in London regarding the different doctrines "dei Protestanti veri e Cattolici Romani". Neither do the Catholics always seem to have objected to the appellation, but sometimes used it themselves. On the other hand, Protestant writers often described their opponents simply as "Catholics"....

Roman Catholic, although it has a varied history of use among Catholics and Protestants in English-speaking countries, is a useful term to distinguish various factions of Catholicism. For instance, Old Catholic Church History, describes the Old Catholics. And certainly the Byzantine Catholic Church in America is a Byzantine Catholic organization (Orthodox), not Roman Catholic of the Latin rite with obedience to the dictates of Rome via her current "infallible" bishop.

In addition, there are Eastern Catholics (Byzantine Churches, Maronite, Coptic) that should be familiar to us all given their plight in Iraq and other areas. Certainly, they do not toady and grovel to Rome although they are in communion with Rome, whereas the Eastern Orthodox are in partial communion with Rome. The Orthodox have themselves also been known as the Catholic Orthodox church.

Also, early Reformers reserved the right to refer to themselves as 'catholic'.

Personally, I will pay no honor to a church will not recant its persecution, dire torture and murder of Archdeacon Philpot.

The blood of the martyred Philpot still stains Rome's hands. She has not repented her gross sins against martyrs and justifies them, as in the Advent article, by quaintly mentioning that "so-and-so was considered quite obstinate" in refusing to call the church of Rome simply "Catholic" (with the intended meaning that it was the only legitimate church and sole source of salvation). Yes, we are well aware that your church has demonstrated it is quite willing to torture and murder those who refuse to name her "Catholic". And we are ourselves quite "obstinate" in this matter.

Rome's murder, at the orders of her dictators, the bishops of Rome, of millions of simple believers should make you consider whether that cup of communion in your Mass has truly been transformed into the blood of Christ or whether it signifies nothing more than the blood of His own simple followers, those martyred for refusing to bow to the monarch of Rome and his arrogant claims to supremacy, those who loved Christ more than life and were required to prove it by that same bishop of Rome and his diabolical hierarchy.

The Roman church, headed by the bishop of Rome, has never repented her murders of millions. Her grossest sins unrepented, she can be no source of salvation to any soul although I hold personally the hope that many within her fold have been and will be saved despite her pernicious and baleful influence.

At this point, I think you should apologize for your church's cold-blooded torture and murder of Archdeacon Philphot. Neither Christ nor his True Church in ancient times ever tortured or murdered anyone. Only Rome believes in and has practiced those methods of "Christian ministry".

Do not suppose that we are unaware of Rome's true nature and her bloody history. Merely because we allow the church of Rome to operate in this country does not mean we have forgotten her true nature and inclinations.

After you apologize, we can continue to a fuller discussion of exactly the times and circumstances under which terms like Romanist, Romish, and even papist are not only acceptable but are in fact the only accurate and correct terms available.

Dr.E: You guys are and always will be the Roman Catholic Church because the bishop of ROME lives in ROME.

You forget that fun-loving little sojourn of the papacy to Avignon under a French pope (Avignon was officially a papal territory but was within the French sphere when France was becoming a modern state, back when Italy was just the name of a region on the map). In opposition, various Roman rival representing the Italian faction. It was a real comedy of errors, with both raising armies of brigands to rape and pillage their way across Europe (sins pre-forgiven by papal authority) in order to depose the rival anti-pope.

This inspiring little episode in the history of the Church Militant And Triumphant is the primary reason why no non-Italian was elected bishop of Rome for about 300 years until that Polish radical, JP II. The current papa, Benedict, is at least a thoughtful and scholarly man. He has recently repudiated any further teaching of the useless (unofficially) doctrine of Limbo. He did not pronounce infallibly against Limbo since no pope had ever imposed Limbo infallibly. And yet, millions of poor Roman Catholics have been taught this false doctrine, wasting their time on it instead being offered the simple doctrines of grace which are required to be taught in any true church of our Lord.

It reminds you of all those same people being taught to revere and pray to Saint Christopher for safety in travel and then Rome finally acknowledged there was and is no Saint Christopher. He was nothing but a legend. But he did inspire a brisk trade in medallions and tiny dashboard statuary. Rome then explained that all prayers ever offered to him, despite his non-existence, were effective because they were directed to someone in heaven and Jesus was snagging these random prayer requests like flyballs in the outfield of Heaven. Well, not exactly but close enough if you sprinkle some Latin phrases and Papa-happy-talk all over it like usual. I'm guessing here that they won't be getting their money back for their little Saint Christopher trinkets either.

Avignon Papacy - Wikipedia

[AlbionGirl]

Related to discussions of late, and when you get the chance and if you're so inclined, A Cheer for Denominations.

[blue-duncan]

“The argument was that authenticated miracles are, if anything, evidence for not against a religion.”

“Miracles” today prove nothing. If you look in the book of Revelation the only people performing miracles then are the followers of Satan. Miracles and signs were used to authenticate the word when there was no written word.

The only current day miracle is the one this weekend that got me out of a potentially embarrassing situation.

1Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.

[irishtenor]

All that Jesus justifies are holy. Saint means set apart, aso. All that Jesus owns are set apart from those who will perish. All of those chosen by God to be saved are saints.

And I firmly believe that all of those who are in heaven right now are too busy praising God to be concerned about what is going on down here. They aren’t listening to your prayers, Jesus is. Pray to him, that is what he is there for. You don’t need help to talk to God, and God doesn’t need the help of the saints to listen. God already knows your needs.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

One cannot please everybody; but, normally, one tries to apply to people and institutions the proper names they give themselves

And that's why it's wonderful that we live in this free country where you are free to refer to Mormons as Christians because they've asked you to call them Christian.

And in this free country I will refrain from calling any Trinity-denier a Christian.

As has been noted, words count.

[stfassisi]

If you look in the book of Revelation the only people performing miracles then are the followers of Satan

Be Careful Dear Brother.

The devil can NOT perform a miracle ,he can NOT move the forces of nature,he can only perform signs ,wonders and illusions.

Only God can provide a true miracle and move the forces of nature.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

I'm getting all teary and nostalgic. I was but a babe when the TV gizmo randomly clicked on to his smiling face and peculiar falsetto voice.

(Well, I wanted to be a babe, anyway. Is that so wrong?)

[Risky-Riskerdo]

I remember the hilarity of watching Herbert W. Armstrong and his illustrations of Revelation which looked more and more like bad science fiction as I grew older.

Yeah, him too, but they put out a slick magazine, "The Plain Truth". It was cheaper(free) than buying Marvel comics and almost as entertaining.

[Claud]

Now if they could just get the Latin straight, they'd be cookin'.

LOL..."get the Latin straight." We invented it! Think we're gonna let Germans, Frenchmen, and Englishmen tell us what it means?! ;)

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Your name is one of my favorite LUCY jokes. 8~)