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Day Five: Pope raps Capitalism, Marxism as 'blind alleys'' in a world without God
NCR Cafe ^ | May 13, 2007 | John Allen

Posted on 05/13/2007 5:07:33 PM PDT by NYer

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1 posted on 05/13/2007 5:07:39 PM PDT by NYer
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To: NYer

the Pope doesn’t “rap” capitalism. The only guy who’s headlines are twisted more than Bush or Giuliani...


2 posted on 05/13/2007 5:09:04 PM PDT by the invisib1e hand (Thank you St. Jude.)
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To: NYer

Marxism needs to vanish and capitalism has to have a conscience.


3 posted on 05/13/2007 5:09:16 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Greed is NOT a conservative ideal.)
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To: cripplecreek

I call it “compassionate capitalism.”


4 posted on 05/13/2007 5:12:20 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: Lady In Blue; Salvation; narses; SMEDLEYBUTLER; redhead; Notwithstanding; nickcarraway; Romulus; ...
John Allen has given us another exemplary analysis of the Holy Father's address to the Latin American and Caribbean Bishops gathered for the 5th CELAM Conference.

As an aside, it was quite amusing to see that midway through his 9 page, single spaced presentation, he took a breather during which they played the Vatican's National Anthem. After that, he continued with his speech, delivering it partially in Portuguese and in Spanish, with apologies thrown in for any confusion. What an amazing man!

5 posted on 05/13/2007 5:13:32 PM PDT by NYer ("Where the bishop is present, there is the Catholic Church" - Ignatius of Antioch)
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To: the invisib1e hand

**Supplying faith and values, not direct political solutions, is therefore the contribution of the church, Benedict said.**

To me, this does not equal capitalism.


6 posted on 05/13/2007 5:14:05 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: NYer

** Benedict called on governments to adopt comprehensive pro-family policies.**

Excellent point.


7 posted on 05/13/2007 5:15:17 PM PDT by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
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To: cripplecreek
Agreed. Unbridled avarice is as destructive as submitting oneself to the will of the collective. Both are a weakness of spirit. Death by Enron, or death by Marx - either way, you'll roast in Hell.


8 posted on 05/13/2007 5:18:05 PM PDT by Viking2002 (Fred Thompson in '08, baby!)
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To: cripplecreek

Good pithy way of summing it up!


9 posted on 05/13/2007 5:21:08 PM PDT by livius
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To: NYer
Ecclesiastical pronouncements on the economy are fond of the phrase “a preferential option for the poor.” It is invoked as the rationale for governmental redistribution of wealth, that is, for a program of taxing earnings away from those who produce in order to subsidize selected groups and individuals. But it is a fact that reshuffling wealth by programs of tax and subsidy merely enriches some at the expense of others; the nation as a whole becomes poorer. Private enterprise capitalism is, in fact, the answer for anyone who really does have a preferential option for the poor. The free market economy, wherever it has been allowed to function, has elevated more poor people further out of poverty faster than any other system. - Biblical Roots of American Liberty

10 posted on 05/13/2007 6:05:10 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: cripplecreek
Marxism needs to vanish and capitalism has to have a conscience.
IMHO substantial humility is required when critiquing "capitalism" (a word which IIRC was coined by Marx, and thus is suspect in its implications). What "capitalism" tends to do is, imperfectly to be sure, to give credit to "the man who is actually in the arena," and not to the critic who second guesses him.
Socialism is nothing but criticism and second guessing of those who actually do things. Theodore Roosevelt
There is no more unhealthy being, no man less worthy of respect, than he who either really holds, or feigns to hold, an attitude of sneering disbelief toward all that is great and lofty, whether in achievement or in that noble effort which, even if it fails, comes to second achievement. A cynical habit of thought and speech, a readiness to criticise work which the critic himself never tries to perform, an intellectual aloofness which will not accept contact with life's realities - all these are marks, not as the possessor would fain to think, of superiority but of weakness. They mark the men unfit to bear their part painfully in the stern strife of living, who seek, in the affection of contempt for the achievements of others, to hide from others and from themselves in their own weakness. The role is easy; there is none easier, save only the role of the man who sneers alike at both criticism and performance.

It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds . . .

To criticize "capitalism" is all too often an exercise in second guessing and falling into the trap of agonizing over whether, considering social effects, to produce steam or diesel locomotives at a time when air travel was transcending train travel - and computers were about to become more important than airliners.

What does "a preferential option for the poor" mean when "capitalism" transforms the meaning of "poverty" to the point where an American secretary today would be ill served by having to live under the conditions under which Queen Victoria (1819-1901) "suffered." It makes poverty virtually meaningless, and thereby makes "the poor" a suspect category. It is easy to second guess "capitalism" in the short run, but in the long run it is very difficult to make the case that "the poor" suffer from too much capitalism.

The pope's case seems to be nuanced, and he talks properly of the priority of Christ in ordering moral priorities, but he seems to shades too close to Marxian analysis with his affinity for liberation theology.


11 posted on 05/13/2007 6:12:23 PM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion (The idea around which liberalism coheres is that NOTHING actually matters except PR.)
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To: NYer

Or rather, G-d is a blind alley in a world without Capitalism.

We have seen the results of a world where people believe in G-d, but there is no capitalism. The result was the Black Death.


12 posted on 05/13/2007 6:59:35 PM PDT by donmeaker (You may not be interested in War but War is interested in you.)
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To: NYer
“The Marxist system, where it found its way into government, not only left a sad heritage of economic and ecological destruction, but also a painful destruction of the human spirit. And we can also see the same thing happening in the West, where the distance between rich and poor is growing constantly, and giving rise to a worrying degradation of personal dignity through drugs, alcohol and deceptive illusions of happiness.”

Marxism is of the Evil One.

Freedom is from Yah'shua.

Capitalism is a Marxist term to describe Freedom and Liberty.

b'shem Yah'shua
13 posted on 05/13/2007 7:38:03 PM PDT by Uri’el-2012 (you shall know that I, YHvH, your Savior, and your Redeemer, am the Elohim of Ya'aqob. Isaiah 60:16)
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To: vox_freedom; Canticle_of_Deborah
I wish they wouldn't put the word "rap" and Pope in the same sentence. I got an awful image of the Pope rapping just reading that headline.
14 posted on 05/13/2007 8:17:58 PM PDT by murphE (These are days when the Christian is expected to praise every creed but his own. --G.K. Chesterton)
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To: NYer
“The Marxist system, where it found its way into government, not only left a sad heritage of economic and ecological destruction, but . . . "

Found its way into government?! It is a government system.

I want a recount.

15 posted on 05/13/2007 11:02:23 PM PDT by Misterioso
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To: Salvation

http://www.acton.org/publicat/occasionalpapers/ratzinger.html

exellent article by Cardinal Ratzinger on market economics (capitalism) and morality.


16 posted on 05/14/2007 1:06:11 AM PDT by rogernz
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To: Viking2002

Enron was not capitalist. It was a phenomenon I see as post-capitalist corporatism. It’s as godless and internationalist as Communism.George Soros is of this system, as is Warren Buffet.


17 posted on 05/14/2007 3:13:03 AM PDT by steve8714 ("A man needs a maid", my ass.)
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To: NYer

The communistic economic system is fundamentally anti- religion the capitalistic economic system is not fundamentally anti-religion.


18 posted on 05/14/2007 3:52:51 AM PDT by ardara
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To: cripplecreek; NYer; Huber
Marxism needs to vanish and capitalism has to have a conscience.

"Capitalism" cannot have a conscience, any more than "society" can "care."

Only human persons have a conscience, and each individual is called to form his conscience in Christian faith and act according to its demands under any worldly economic system.

19 posted on 05/14/2007 3:57:50 AM PDT by Tax-chick (Death is perishable. Faith is eternal.)
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For later read


20 posted on 05/14/2007 6:54:26 AM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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