Posted on 05/04/2007 8:40:45 AM PDT by NYer
No Guinness, although I think there’s a bottle of Michelob left from the last time my father visited. And the nap was Overtaken By Events ... just as I dozed off, I heard one of my sons moving a chair into the kitchen so he could rummage the freezer :-). Life is like that sometimes.
My point, such as it is, is that without more information, such as who are the Lemann Brothers, and on what they base their interpretation, we’re not going to have any useful discussion of what is actually an interesting question.
Maybe NYer can help with this. I don’t have Mr. Schoeman’s book, so I can’t add anything.
NYer made two obvious errors in his post. The first was that Jesus kept silent before the High Priest. He didn't. Once he was ordered under oath, he gave an answer (As was required of him under Mosaic Law).
The second glaring error was his assertion that Mosaic Law prohibits a man from being compelled to testify. Leviticus 5:1 suggests otherwise and I can find no such prohibition in the Torah.
And then he used both of those errors as substantiation of how some Jewish Rabbi came to be a catholic. Well we have yet to hear from NYer on this subject. He has posted this RUMOR on several threads now. I'd just like to see someone substantiate it. Otherwise it remains a rumor.
"The second glaring error was his assertion that Mosaic Law prohibits a man from being compelled to testify. " to:
The second glaring error was his assertion that Mosaic Law prohibits a man from being compelled to testify against himself.
I hope your nap went better than mine. Boys!
The boys are long gone, Tax-chick.
Things change radically when you are finally “left alone”.
Endure and enjoy while you can, because there is nothing so permanent as change.
In Him,
ROE
Again, professor, your argument is with Shoeman. Write to him.
People keep saying that, and I’m sure it’s true :-).
Maybe people should check their facts before they quote him.
Another one swims back across the Tiber!
Welcome home, Dr. Beckwith!
What facts? Rabbinical Judaism is not Sola Scriptura. You check your facts.
Mosaic Law is sola scriptura.
Dr. Francis Beckwith Returns To Full Communion With The Church
Catholic Converts - Stephen K. Ray (former Evangelical)
Catholic Converts - Malcolm Muggeridge
Catholic Converts - Richard John Neuhaus
Catholic Converts - Avery Cardinal Dulles
Catholic Converts - Israel (Eugenio) Zolli - Chief Rabbi of Rome
Catholic Converts - Robert H. Bork , American Jurist (Catholic Caucus)
Catholic Converts - Marcus Grodi
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Agreed, and well said. Welcome home, Dr. Beckwith!
Mr. Conspirator,
How would you characterize the relationship between the Torah, the rabbinical teaching and the Tradition in Judaism, especially around 1c, in general?
More specifically, how accurate would be the contention that the Law of Moses prohibited forcing a self-incriminating testimony?
Okay ... I have the book and here is what Roy Schoeman has written.
Both Matthew and Mark explicitly mention Jesus' silence as well as the underlying motive of envy. From Matthew 27:12-18.
But when he was accused by the chief priests and elders, he made no answer. Then Pilate said to him, "Do you not hear how many things they testify against you?" But he gave him no answer, not even to a single charge; so that the governor wondered greatly .... For he knew that it was out of envy that they had delivered him up.
The Leman brothers made the touching point that Jesus' silence before the High Priest was motivated by His profound respect for the office of the Jewish Priesthood. Mosaic law forbids compelling a witness to testify against himself. It was because Jesus did not want to put the High Priest in the position of sinning against that law that He refused to answer the High Priest's questions even though beaten for it (John 18:19-23).
The high priest then questioned Jesus about his disciples and his teaching. Jesus answered him, "I have spoken openly to the world; I have always taught in synagogues and in the temple, where all Jews come together; I have said nothing secretly. Why to you ask me? Ask those who have heard me, what I said to them; they know what I said." When he had said this, one of the officers standing by struck Jesus with his hand, saying, "Is that how you answer the high priest?" Jesus answered him, "If I have spoken wrongly, bear witness to the wrong; but if I have spoken rightly, why do you strike me?"
Jesus acquiesced only when the High Priest ordered Him to answer in the name of God.
Hope that clarifies your question.
With a little research, I came across the following, written by a lawyer. Perhaps this will resolve that question, as well.
Under Mosaic law an accused could not be required to testify against himself. This is the soul of our 5th Amendment, "No person shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself." Here is the concept of "taking the fifth", part of criminal justice since the time of Moses!
My friend didn’t like Scott Hahn very much. Too much in common, I think :-).
That’s informative, thanks!
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Wow. I had no idea. Thanks, NYer.
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