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Mormons: We're misunderstood
DAILY PRESS & ARGUS ^ | April 26, 2007 | Dan Meisler

Posted on 04/26/2007 6:03:35 AM PDT by Alex Murphy

Ask Mark Briscoe, leader of the Howell ward of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the greatest misconception about the church, and he doesn't have to think very long or hard.

"Sometimes people would say that we're not Christians," he said. "We definitely are. We believe in Jesus Christ."

An Idaho native, Briscoe has been a Mormon his whole life, and said it is painful to have others think that his church is somehow outside the boundaries of Christianity. He said he was a high school student when he first heard the accusation.

"It was a little bit unsettling," he said. "From my earliest memories, we talked about Jesus Christ." In fact, members of the church believe that Jesus' teachings were changed and weakened soon after the apostles died, and that this "apostasy," or falling away from the truth, led to the withdrawal of the true church from the earth.

Mormons believe that was reversed when Joseph Smith, regarded as a prophet, was visited by God and Jesus in a vision in 1820. That's when Smith was chosen to restore the true church to the world, according to LDS doctrine. Smith translated the Book of Mormon, the sacred text of the Latter Day Saints, which is based on the Bible.

The Mormons' refer to this process as the "restoration."

The religion has received increased attention as Mitt Romney's prominence as a presidential candidate has risen. As happened with John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic president, some political observers have questioned whether Romney's Mormonism will hurt his electability, or his conduct as president if he's eventually elected.

Jan Shipps, an expert in the LDS church, a professor emeritus of history and religious studies at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, and a Methodist, said that concern is overhyped.

She said that, unlike Catholicism, in which a politician can be denied communion for votes in support of abortion rights, for example, the Mormon church does not directly influence its members who happen to be politicians.

A local bishop can exclude a church member from the temple, but that's about it, Shipps said.

"They don't have any official way to control their members, except to say that they can go into or cannot go into the temple," Shipps said.

"I just don't think it's a big deal, but a lot of people think it is because the president of the church is also understood to be a prophet," she said. "But the likelihood that the president of the church would have a revelation that the president has to do this or has to do that is less than zero."

Briscoe agreed with Shipps' assessment that any influence the church would have over members would be at the local level. But even that would not include anything political.

"We never say we're for one candidate or the other," he said. "Our view is that's not proper."

There is some evidence, however, that Romney is getting a lot of support from Mormons — 13 percent of the money he's raised so far, or $2.37 million, has come from the state of Utah, home of the church's headquarters.

Local ties, global reach Briscoe's title is "Bishop," analogous to a pastor, but he doesn't receive a salary from the church. That goes for all other leaders as well. Briscoe works as a powertrain engineer for Ford Motor Co. in Livonia.

"It makes for a very busy life, that's for sure," he said.

The LDS church on West Grand River Avenue in Howell has 400 members; holds services every Sunday; and has youth activities during the week.

One of the hallmarks of the church is the cooperation and support between members.

"A main focus is to provide service to one another," Briscoe said.

Members go in groups of two to visit each other on the weekends for "Home Teaching" sessions, in which they talk about spirituality and life in general, he said.

"Part of it is to see if people need help with anything," he said. "The goal is that nobody feels they don't have someone to call."

The visiting is separated by gender, with males visiting males and females visiting females.

Mormon services are not the raucous or musical affairs that other denominations celebrate.

"'Reverent' is the word we like to use," Briscoe said.

A typical service starts with the sacrament, a hymn and a prayer. Then, church members who Briscoe has spoken with beforehand give talks of about 10 minutes long on a given subject.

Non-Mormons, however, don't often get the chance to witness these services. The church has a reputation for secrecy, but Shipps said it's not just for the sake of exclusion.

"A better way to say it is what goes on in the temple is sacred and therefore private, rather than secret," she said. "All temples are closed to anyone except those who the bishop recommends."

Outreach also is an important part of the Mormon philosophy. Most men do two years of missionary work when they're around 19 years old, and unmarried women do 18 months. One of Briscoe's own sons is in Brazil right now as a missionary.

College age is an ideal time to go abroad as a missionary because it exposes one to the world, yet still gives a person time to start a family. And family, Briscoe said, is a foundational piece of the Mormon church.

"We do believe in families," he said. "We believe a man and a woman should get married and raise a family, so we encourage that."

Briscoe himself was a missionary in Spain: "I learned probably as much from that experience as I did from college."

Mormons also are aware of opportunities to tell friends and other social acquaintances about Mormonism, Briscoe said, and how to approach people is a subject of conversation in the church.

"As life goes on, you get into discussions about your beliefs," he said. "We feel like what we have is so important ... we really feel deeply that what we believe is the truth."

The church has been fairly successful in bringing more people in. There are about 6 million members of the LDS church in United States, and more than that abroad, Shipps said.

Not universally embraced Many of the church's practices have prompted criticism from other religions. Polygamy, the practice of husbands having more than one wife, may be the most enduring stereotype of Mormons. But it hasn't been practiced since 1890 by the church, and is strictly prohibited.

The LDS past practice of baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims after their death drew fierce opposition from Jewish leaders as well.

Shipps said it was done to give non-Mormons the choice in the afterlife of becoming Mormon. That's also why there's such an emphasis in the church on genealogy — so that all one's relatives can be identified and baptized, she said.

Also, black people were denied membership until 1978, when the president of the church at the time had a revelation that they should be included.

Now, Shipps said, the LDS church has made strong inroads into nonwhite areas such as Japan, South Korea and Africa.

"There may be as many people worshipping on Sunday in Spanish-speaking areas than English-speaking," she said.

Theologically, Mormonism is viewed suspiciously by some as well. The Southern Baptist Convention, for example, puts the LDS church in the category of "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements."

Shipps said the thing that sets Mormonism apart — and ironically draws the ire of both Christians and Jews — is the belief that the church is re-gathering the twelve tribes of Israel.

"It's a very complex and interesting and powerful theology, but for those looking at it from the outside, it seems somewhat strange because it has, in addition to Christian claims, claims to be the restoration of Israel," Shipps said.

Another notable Mormon belief is that the church president is a prophet, and receives the word of God.

"We believe God does talk to man," Briscoe said. "He chooses one prophet at a time."

Regardless of the negativity and criticism they may run into, he said, most Mormons aren't swayed.

"When people say things, we're still confident and confident in what we know to be right," he said.


TOPICS: Apologetics; Other Christian; Other non-Christian; Theology
KEYWORDS: lds
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To: svcw

Ok, no problem. I was just refering to the words of Jesus Christ and how he said that works were required to obtain Eternal Life. I am just pointing out that Mormon Theology is 100% consistent with any direct quote from Jesus Christ.

Why do you feel that Jesus and the Mormons are wrong?


41 posted on 04/26/2007 11:07:40 AM PDT by nowandlater (My 2008 Dream Ticket---Romney-Thompson or Thompson-Romney)
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To: Alex Murphy
Shipps said the thing that sets Mormonism apart — and ironically draws the ire of both Christians and Jews — is the belief that the church is re-gathering the twelve tribes of Israel.

No, what sets the LDS apart is their polytheistic beliefs and their belief that Jesus is the brother of Satan.

They are nice folks, but they should be a little more straightfoward in their theology.

42 posted on 04/26/2007 11:08:49 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

“Isaiah clearly says that our works are not sufficient and it is only through our relying on the Lord that we are saved. “Good people” will not make it to heaven, because they are covered in sin. Trying to earn your way to heaven will not help you. It is only through confessing your sins and placing your salvation in the hands of Christ that you will be saved from damnation.”

Really? Faith is not a work? Please back it from our Savior and God Himself. Please give me a direct quote from the Gospels.


43 posted on 04/26/2007 11:09:13 AM PDT by nowandlater (My 2008 Dream Ticket---Romney-Thompson or Thompson-Romney)
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To: Alex Murphy
Smith translated the Book of Mormon, the sacred text of the Latter Day Saints, which is based on the Bible.

Not quite. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has several "sacred texts" - or scriptures, as we call them. They include the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, the Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. The Book of Mormon is not based upon the Bible, but is a companion Testament bearing witness of Jesus Christ and detailing more of his ministry on the Earth.

Members go in groups of two to visit each other on the weekends for "Home Teaching" sessions, in which they talk about spirituality and life in general, he said. "Part of it is to see if people need help with anything," he said. "The goal is that nobody feels they don't have someone to call." The visiting is separated by gender, with males visiting males and females visiting females.

Not true. "Home Teachers" are Priesthood holders who monthly visit everyone - from entire families to single members. "Visiting Teachers" are women from the Relief Society who provide monthly visits to the women in the Church.

A typical service starts with the sacrament, a hymn and a prayer. Then, church members who Briscoe has spoken with beforehand give talks of about 10 minutes long on a given subject. Non-Mormons, however, don't often get the chance to witness these services.

Not true. These services are held in our Chapels and Stake Centers (which is a just a larger chapel). Each of those buildings, directly under the name of the Church, are the words "Visitors Welcome". Any visitor is instantly welcomed to attend almost every meeting held in the chapel there - especially Sacrament Meeting. The author of this article has confused regular worship services in our Chapels with the ordinances performed in our Temples.

The LDS past practice of baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims after their death drew fierce opposition from Jewish leaders as well.

We perform proxy baptisms in our Temples for every person who has died, no matter their race, religion, nation of origin, etc. The names are submitted by people who have those names in their ancestry. Proxy baptisms did not target Jewish Holocaust victims. Anyone who does not believe in the Church or the efficacy of the proxy baptisms performed by the Church shouldn't then complain about them being performed since, therefore, in that person's opinion, they are meaningless.

Also, black people were denied membership until 1978, when the president of the church at the time had a revelation that they should be included.

Absolutely untrue. Blacks were not denied membership.

Theologically, Mormonism is viewed suspiciously by some as well. The Southern Baptist Convention, for example, puts the LDS church in the category of "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements."

The Romans felt the same way about Christ and His Apostles. I seem to recall crucifying was involved at some point.

Mr. Meisler's research could have been performed a little better. This article has more innacuracies than most I read about the Church. Although, he did steer clear of obvious bias and tried to be fair.

44 posted on 04/26/2007 11:12:36 AM PDT by Spiff (Rudy Giuliani Quote (NY Post, 1996) "Most of Clinton's policies are very similar to most of mine.")
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To: nowandlater

You don’t recognize Isaiah as a work from God?

How can you claim to be a Christian if you completely discount a book from the Bible?

I quoted and referenced the passage for you. The fact that you disagree with what God has said in that passage is not of my concern, but it should be of concern to you.


45 posted on 04/26/2007 11:13:18 AM PDT by Pan_Yans Wife (Life isn't fair. It's just fairer than death, that's all.--William Goldman)
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To: PAR35

LDS doctrine does not subscribe to traditional creedal trinitarianism. That is, the LDS do not believe the extra-biblical doctrines which surround many Christians’ ideas about God, such as expressed by the Nicene Creed. Specifically, the LDS do not accept the proposition that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are different manifestations of the same Being.

Rather, LDS doctrine teaches that God the Father is personally and numerically distinct from Jesus Christ, His Only Begotten Son. The Father is understood to be the literal father of His spirit children.

LDS believe that Jesus Christ’s role is central to our Heavenly Father’s plan. Christ is unique in several respects from all other spirit children of God:

Jesus was and is perfect
Jesus is God; the other spirit children of the Father were not (See John 1:1-2, Hebrews 1:6, 1 Nephi 11:16–26, D&C 76:13).
Jesus is the Creator (See John 1:3, Hebrews 1:1–6, Mosiah 3:3, Helaman 14:12, Moses 2:1).
Jesus obeyed the Father in all things (See 3 Nephi 11:11).
Jesus was chosen and foreordained to be the Redeemer (See Isaiah 43:11, Mosiah 13:28–34, 3 Nephi 9:15, Moses 4:2).
Jesus is the Mediator between God and humanity (See John 14:6, 1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 8:5, 2 Nephi 2:28, D&C 76:69).
Jesus was “the Only Begotten”—only He, of all God’s children, had a physical inheritance in His body from God the Father. All other mortals have two mortal parents, and Satan and his followers never receive physical bodies at all. (See John 1:14, John 3:16, John 14:3, Jacob 4:11, Alma 12:33–34).
God the Father also had many other spirit children, created in His image and that of His Only Begotten. These children include all humans born on the earth. Some of God’s children rebelled against Him, and contested the choice of Jesus as Savior. (See D&C 76:25–27). The leader of these children was Lucifer, or Satan. Those spirit children of God who followed Satan in his rebellion against Christ are sometimes referred to as “demons,” or “devils.” (See Moses 4:1–4, Abraham 3:24–28).

Thus, it is technically true to say that Jesus and Satan are “brothers,” in the sense that both have the same spiritual parent, God the Father.

However, critics do not provide the context for this doctrine. Cain and Abel were also brothers, and yet no Bible reader believes that they are spiritual equals or equally admirable.

Finally, while it is true that all mortals share a spiritual parent with Jesus (and Satan, and every other spiritual child of God), we now have a different, more important relationship with Jesus. All of God’s children, save Jesus, have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). In sinning, they abandon and betray their divine heritage and inheritance. Only through Jesus can any mortal return home to God the Father. This return becomes possible when a sinner is born again, and adopted by Christ, who becomes the spiritual father to those whom He redeems. (See Romans 8:14–39.)

Elder M. Russell Ballard cautioned members of the Church:

We occasionally hear some members refer to Jesus as our Elder Brother, which is a true concept based on our understanding of the premortal life with our Father in Heaven. But like many points of gospel doctrine, that simple truth doesn’t go far enough in terms of describing the Savior’s role in our present lives and His great position as a member of the Godhead. Thus, some non-LDS Christians are uncomfortable with what they perceive as a secondary role for Christ in our theology. They feel that we view Jesus as a spiritual peer. They believe that we view Christ as an implementor for God, if you will, but that we don’t view Him as God to us and to all mankind, which, of course, is counter to biblical testimony about Christ’s divinity…
Now we can understand why some Latter-day Saints have tended to focus on Christ’s Sonship as opposed to His Godhood. As members of earthly families, we can relate to Him as a child, as a Son, and as a Brother because we know how that feels. We can personalize that relationship because we ourselves are children, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters. For some it may be more difficult to relate to Him as a God. And so in an attempt to draw closer to Christ and to cultivate warm and personal feelings toward Him, some tend to humanize Him, sometimes at the expense of acknowledging His Divinity. So let us be very clear on this point: it is true that Jesus was our Elder Brother in the premortal life, but we believe that in this life it is crucial that we become “born again” as His sons and daughters in the gospel covenant.[1]
[edit]Conclusion
Jesus, Satan, and all humanity share God the Father as their spiritual sire. However, moral agency led Jesus to obey God the Father perfectly and share fully in the Father’s divine nature and power. The same agency led Satan to renounce God, fight Jesus, and doom himself to eternal damnation. The remainder of God’s children—all of us—have the choice to follow the route chosen by Satan, or the path to which Christ invites us and shows the way.

Divine parenthood gives all children of God potential; Christ maximized that potential, and Satan squandered it.

To choose the gospel of Jesus Christ and the grace that attends it will lead us home again. If we choose to follow Satan’s example, and refuse to accept the gift of God’s Only Begotten Son, our spiritual parentage cannot help us, just as it cannot help dignify or enoble Satan.


46 posted on 04/26/2007 11:17:21 AM PDT by nowandlater (My 2008 Dream Ticket---Romney-Thompson or Thompson-Romney)
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To: Pan_Yans Wife

“You don’t recognize Isaiah as a work from God?

How can you claim to be a Christian if you completely discount a book from the Bible?

I quoted and referenced the passage for you. The fact that you disagree with what God has said in that passage is not of my concern, but it should be of concern to you.”

I absolutely believe in Isaiah. I just put the utmost value in words of Jesus Christ as stated in the GOSPELS. He always seems to provide the proper context and truth. Don’t you find it strange that you can’t rely on the Gospels to back yourself up?


47 posted on 04/26/2007 11:19:59 AM PDT by nowandlater (My 2008 Dream Ticket---Romney-Thompson or Thompson-Romney)
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To: nowandlater

i reject your premise that I have said Jesus is wrong, I have never said any such thing.


48 posted on 04/26/2007 11:20:20 AM PDT by svcw (There is no plan B.)
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To: PAR35

Poppycock! We are straight foward! Here is our Sacrament Prayer which encapsulates the entire focus of our worship.

O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this abread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.
• • •
79 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.


49 posted on 04/26/2007 11:20:30 AM PDT by nowandlater (My 2008 Dream Ticket---Romney-Thompson or Thompson-Romney)
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To: svcw

Jesus was requiring works from this wealthy Man. So help me through your logic then? Ok, so what did Jesus REALLY mean? What is the premise? He sounds so darn like a Mormon, it is scary.


50 posted on 04/26/2007 11:22:21 AM PDT by nowandlater (My 2008 Dream Ticket---Romney-Thompson or Thompson-Romney)
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To: restornu

Calling in the Danites again I see.


51 posted on 04/26/2007 11:23:54 AM PDT by needlenose_neely
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To: topcat54
Why do Mormons keep insisting on being identified with an apostate entity?

Because they consider weak, ignorant, nominal Christians to be "Golden Contacts" to prey on as converts, which wins them lots of points toward godhood.

52 posted on 04/26/2007 11:26:50 AM PDT by needlenose_neely
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To: MHGinTN
Mormon proselytizing is based upon the implied 'what is missing from your religious beliefs and their impact upon your daily living', or 'did your denomination tell you all the truth you need to walk with God', or even 'your church has not got the god-given authority to lead you'. Satan used the same technique with Eve, to first establish doubt, then drum upon that doubt seed, as if you haven't been given all of the truth or the higher truths, and upon that doubt to inveigle a new doctrine, a new image of god, a new way to make yourself acceptable to enter into God's presence.

A modern form of Gnosticism, mixed with polytheism, arianism, paganism, with the anthropomorphite heresy thrown in for good measure, topped off with self righteousness.

Satan never has any new ideas, he keeps recycling the one's he has found worked in the past.

53 posted on 04/26/2007 11:30:37 AM PDT by needlenose_neely
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To: nowandlater

Thanks for the straightforward statement, which acknowledges the differences between traditional Christian beliefs and those of the LDS. Too many Mormons try to blur the distinctions and pretend they don’t exist.

You have taken the intellectually honest approach, and for that I applaud you.


54 posted on 04/26/2007 11:31:59 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: PAR35
They are nice folks, but they should be a little more straightfoward in their theology.

If they did that, recruiting would be much harder.

55 posted on 04/26/2007 11:32:10 AM PDT by needlenose_neely
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To: restornu

Add me to your ping list too.


56 posted on 04/26/2007 11:33:35 AM PDT by needlenose_neely
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To: nowandlater

You did a good job in post 46, and then had to mess it up with 49. You should have quit while you were ahead. Did someone get to you in the interim?


57 posted on 04/26/2007 11:35:15 AM PDT by PAR35
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To: needlenose_neely

Hi Needlenose_neely.

What do you think of this quote from Jesus? Do good (sounds like a work to me) and be as the children of your Father (sounds very Mormon)? Care to contradict Jesus?

Matthew 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt alove thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.


58 posted on 04/26/2007 11:36:16 AM PDT by nowandlater (My 2008 Dream Ticket---Romney-Thompson or Thompson-Romney)
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To: PAR35

Just stating all the facts. Go to our worship service. This is EXACTLY to the focus of our worship. Sorry, we have little value for any teaching if it not tied closely to the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And I am 100% confident that if we follow the aim of our worship we will be at the right hand of Jesus Christ.


59 posted on 04/26/2007 11:39:25 AM PDT by nowandlater (My 2008 Dream Ticket---Romney-Thompson or Thompson-Romney)
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To: nowandlater
Like I said, when you learn how to be intellectually honest, by refraining from misrepresenting people when they have corrected your misrepresentations, and by learning to refrain from falsely accusing people of saying things they never said, and when challenged to prove it was said, ignore it, and to be reciprocal in dialogue, then there will be a basis of honesty for exchange.

Until then, I will not expend the energy or the time to engage intellectual dishonesty, so you can save yourself some time and energy by not posting to me.

Comprendo?

60 posted on 04/26/2007 11:41:11 AM PDT by needlenose_neely
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