Posted on 04/26/2007 6:03:35 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Ok, no problem. I was just refering to the words of Jesus Christ and how he said that works were required to obtain Eternal Life. I am just pointing out that Mormon Theology is 100% consistent with any direct quote from Jesus Christ.
Why do you feel that Jesus and the Mormons are wrong?
No, what sets the LDS apart is their polytheistic beliefs and their belief that Jesus is the brother of Satan.
They are nice folks, but they should be a little more straightfoward in their theology.
“Isaiah clearly says that our works are not sufficient and it is only through our relying on the Lord that we are saved. “Good people” will not make it to heaven, because they are covered in sin. Trying to earn your way to heaven will not help you. It is only through confessing your sins and placing your salvation in the hands of Christ that you will be saved from damnation.”
Really? Faith is not a work? Please back it from our Savior and God Himself. Please give me a direct quote from the Gospels.
Not quite. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has several "sacred texts" - or scriptures, as we call them. They include the Old Testament, the New Testament, the Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ, the Doctrine & Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price. The Book of Mormon is not based upon the Bible, but is a companion Testament bearing witness of Jesus Christ and detailing more of his ministry on the Earth.
Members go in groups of two to visit each other on the weekends for "Home Teaching" sessions, in which they talk about spirituality and life in general, he said. "Part of it is to see if people need help with anything," he said. "The goal is that nobody feels they don't have someone to call." The visiting is separated by gender, with males visiting males and females visiting females.
Not true. "Home Teachers" are Priesthood holders who monthly visit everyone - from entire families to single members. "Visiting Teachers" are women from the Relief Society who provide monthly visits to the women in the Church.
A typical service starts with the sacrament, a hymn and a prayer. Then, church members who Briscoe has spoken with beforehand give talks of about 10 minutes long on a given subject. Non-Mormons, however, don't often get the chance to witness these services.
Not true. These services are held in our Chapels and Stake Centers (which is a just a larger chapel). Each of those buildings, directly under the name of the Church, are the words "Visitors Welcome". Any visitor is instantly welcomed to attend almost every meeting held in the chapel there - especially Sacrament Meeting. The author of this article has confused regular worship services in our Chapels with the ordinances performed in our Temples.
The LDS past practice of baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims after their death drew fierce opposition from Jewish leaders as well.
We perform proxy baptisms in our Temples for every person who has died, no matter their race, religion, nation of origin, etc. The names are submitted by people who have those names in their ancestry. Proxy baptisms did not target Jewish Holocaust victims. Anyone who does not believe in the Church or the efficacy of the proxy baptisms performed by the Church shouldn't then complain about them being performed since, therefore, in that person's opinion, they are meaningless.
Also, black people were denied membership until 1978, when the president of the church at the time had a revelation that they should be included.
Absolutely untrue. Blacks were not denied membership.
Theologically, Mormonism is viewed suspiciously by some as well. The Southern Baptist Convention, for example, puts the LDS church in the category of "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements."
The Romans felt the same way about Christ and His Apostles. I seem to recall crucifying was involved at some point.
Mr. Meisler's research could have been performed a little better. This article has more innacuracies than most I read about the Church. Although, he did steer clear of obvious bias and tried to be fair.
You don’t recognize Isaiah as a work from God?
How can you claim to be a Christian if you completely discount a book from the Bible?
I quoted and referenced the passage for you. The fact that you disagree with what God has said in that passage is not of my concern, but it should be of concern to you.
LDS doctrine does not subscribe to traditional creedal trinitarianism. That is, the LDS do not believe the extra-biblical doctrines which surround many Christians’ ideas about God, such as expressed by the Nicene Creed. Specifically, the LDS do not accept the proposition that God the Father, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit are different manifestations of the same Being.
Rather, LDS doctrine teaches that God the Father is personally and numerically distinct from Jesus Christ, His Only Begotten Son. The Father is understood to be the literal father of His spirit children.
LDS believe that Jesus Christ’s role is central to our Heavenly Father’s plan. Christ is unique in several respects from all other spirit children of God:
Jesus was and is perfect
Jesus is God; the other spirit children of the Father were not (See John 1:1-2, Hebrews 1:6, 1 Nephi 11:16–26, D&C 76:13).
Jesus is the Creator (See John 1:3, Hebrews 1:1–6, Mosiah 3:3, Helaman 14:12, Moses 2:1).
Jesus obeyed the Father in all things (See 3 Nephi 11:11).
Jesus was chosen and foreordained to be the Redeemer (See Isaiah 43:11, Mosiah 13:28–34, 3 Nephi 9:15, Moses 4:2).
Jesus is the Mediator between God and humanity (See John 14:6, 1 Timothy 2:5, Hebrews 8:5, 2 Nephi 2:28, D&C 76:69).
Jesus was “the Only Begotten”—only He, of all God’s children, had a physical inheritance in His body from God the Father. All other mortals have two mortal parents, and Satan and his followers never receive physical bodies at all. (See John 1:14, John 3:16, John 14:3, Jacob 4:11, Alma 12:33–34).
God the Father also had many other spirit children, created in His image and that of His Only Begotten. These children include all humans born on the earth. Some of God’s children rebelled against Him, and contested the choice of Jesus as Savior. (See D&C 76:25–27). The leader of these children was Lucifer, or Satan. Those spirit children of God who followed Satan in his rebellion against Christ are sometimes referred to as “demons,” or “devils.” (See Moses 4:1–4, Abraham 3:24–28).
Thus, it is technically true to say that Jesus and Satan are “brothers,” in the sense that both have the same spiritual parent, God the Father.
However, critics do not provide the context for this doctrine. Cain and Abel were also brothers, and yet no Bible reader believes that they are spiritual equals or equally admirable.
Finally, while it is true that all mortals share a spiritual parent with Jesus (and Satan, and every other spiritual child of God), we now have a different, more important relationship with Jesus. All of God’s children, save Jesus, have sinned and come short of the glory of God (Romans 3:23). In sinning, they abandon and betray their divine heritage and inheritance. Only through Jesus can any mortal return home to God the Father. This return becomes possible when a sinner is born again, and adopted by Christ, who becomes the spiritual father to those whom He redeems. (See Romans 8:14–39.)
Elder M. Russell Ballard cautioned members of the Church:
We occasionally hear some members refer to Jesus as our Elder Brother, which is a true concept based on our understanding of the premortal life with our Father in Heaven. But like many points of gospel doctrine, that simple truth doesn’t go far enough in terms of describing the Savior’s role in our present lives and His great position as a member of the Godhead. Thus, some non-LDS Christians are uncomfortable with what they perceive as a secondary role for Christ in our theology. They feel that we view Jesus as a spiritual peer. They believe that we view Christ as an implementor for God, if you will, but that we don’t view Him as God to us and to all mankind, which, of course, is counter to biblical testimony about Christ’s divinity…
Now we can understand why some Latter-day Saints have tended to focus on Christ’s Sonship as opposed to His Godhood. As members of earthly families, we can relate to Him as a child, as a Son, and as a Brother because we know how that feels. We can personalize that relationship because we ourselves are children, sons and daughters, brothers and sisters. For some it may be more difficult to relate to Him as a God. And so in an attempt to draw closer to Christ and to cultivate warm and personal feelings toward Him, some tend to humanize Him, sometimes at the expense of acknowledging His Divinity. So let us be very clear on this point: it is true that Jesus was our Elder Brother in the premortal life, but we believe that in this life it is crucial that we become “born again” as His sons and daughters in the gospel covenant.[1]
[edit]Conclusion
Jesus, Satan, and all humanity share God the Father as their spiritual sire. However, moral agency led Jesus to obey God the Father perfectly and share fully in the Father’s divine nature and power. The same agency led Satan to renounce God, fight Jesus, and doom himself to eternal damnation. The remainder of God’s children—all of us—have the choice to follow the route chosen by Satan, or the path to which Christ invites us and shows the way.
Divine parenthood gives all children of God potential; Christ maximized that potential, and Satan squandered it.
To choose the gospel of Jesus Christ and the grace that attends it will lead us home again. If we choose to follow Satan’s example, and refuse to accept the gift of God’s Only Begotten Son, our spiritual parentage cannot help us, just as it cannot help dignify or enoble Satan.
“You don’t recognize Isaiah as a work from God?
How can you claim to be a Christian if you completely discount a book from the Bible?
I quoted and referenced the passage for you. The fact that you disagree with what God has said in that passage is not of my concern, but it should be of concern to you.”
I absolutely believe in Isaiah. I just put the utmost value in words of Jesus Christ as stated in the GOSPELS. He always seems to provide the proper context and truth. Don’t you find it strange that you can’t rely on the Gospels to back yourself up?
i reject your premise that I have said Jesus is wrong, I have never said any such thing.
Poppycock! We are straight foward! Here is our Sacrament Prayer which encapsulates the entire focus of our worship.
O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this abread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.
• • •
79 O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen.
Jesus was requiring works from this wealthy Man. So help me through your logic then? Ok, so what did Jesus REALLY mean? What is the premise? He sounds so darn like a Mormon, it is scary.
Calling in the Danites again I see.
Because they consider weak, ignorant, nominal Christians to be "Golden Contacts" to prey on as converts, which wins them lots of points toward godhood.
A modern form of Gnosticism, mixed with polytheism, arianism, paganism, with the anthropomorphite heresy thrown in for good measure, topped off with self righteousness.
Satan never has any new ideas, he keeps recycling the one's he has found worked in the past.
Thanks for the straightforward statement, which acknowledges the differences between traditional Christian beliefs and those of the LDS. Too many Mormons try to blur the distinctions and pretend they don’t exist.
You have taken the intellectually honest approach, and for that I applaud you.
If they did that, recruiting would be much harder.
Add me to your ping list too.
You did a good job in post 46, and then had to mess it up with 49. You should have quit while you were ahead. Did someone get to you in the interim?
Hi Needlenose_neely.
What do you think of this quote from Jesus? Do good (sounds like a work to me) and be as the children of your Father (sounds very Mormon)? Care to contradict Jesus?
Matthew 5:43 ¶ Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt alove thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Just stating all the facts. Go to our worship service. This is EXACTLY to the focus of our worship. Sorry, we have little value for any teaching if it not tied closely to the Sacrifice of Jesus Christ. And I am 100% confident that if we follow the aim of our worship we will be at the right hand of Jesus Christ.
Until then, I will not expend the energy or the time to engage intellectual dishonesty, so you can save yourself some time and energy by not posting to me.
Comprendo?
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