Posted on 04/26/2007 6:03:35 AM PDT by Alex Murphy
Ask Mark Briscoe, leader of the Howell ward of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the greatest misconception about the church, and he doesn't have to think very long or hard.
"Sometimes people would say that we're not Christians," he said. "We definitely are. We believe in Jesus Christ."
An Idaho native, Briscoe has been a Mormon his whole life, and said it is painful to have others think that his church is somehow outside the boundaries of Christianity. He said he was a high school student when he first heard the accusation.
"It was a little bit unsettling," he said. "From my earliest memories, we talked about Jesus Christ." In fact, members of the church believe that Jesus' teachings were changed and weakened soon after the apostles died, and that this "apostasy," or falling away from the truth, led to the withdrawal of the true church from the earth.
Mormons believe that was reversed when Joseph Smith, regarded as a prophet, was visited by God and Jesus in a vision in 1820. That's when Smith was chosen to restore the true church to the world, according to LDS doctrine. Smith translated the Book of Mormon, the sacred text of the Latter Day Saints, which is based on the Bible.
The Mormons' refer to this process as the "restoration."
The religion has received increased attention as Mitt Romney's prominence as a presidential candidate has risen. As happened with John F. Kennedy, the first Catholic president, some political observers have questioned whether Romney's Mormonism will hurt his electability, or his conduct as president if he's eventually elected.
Jan Shipps, an expert in the LDS church, a professor emeritus of history and religious studies at Indiana University-Purdue University Indianapolis, and a Methodist, said that concern is overhyped.
She said that, unlike Catholicism, in which a politician can be denied communion for votes in support of abortion rights, for example, the Mormon church does not directly influence its members who happen to be politicians.
A local bishop can exclude a church member from the temple, but that's about it, Shipps said.
"They don't have any official way to control their members, except to say that they can go into or cannot go into the temple," Shipps said.
"I just don't think it's a big deal, but a lot of people think it is because the president of the church is also understood to be a prophet," she said. "But the likelihood that the president of the church would have a revelation that the president has to do this or has to do that is less than zero."
Briscoe agreed with Shipps' assessment that any influence the church would have over members would be at the local level. But even that would not include anything political.
"We never say we're for one candidate or the other," he said. "Our view is that's not proper."
There is some evidence, however, that Romney is getting a lot of support from Mormons — 13 percent of the money he's raised so far, or $2.37 million, has come from the state of Utah, home of the church's headquarters.
Local ties, global reach Briscoe's title is "Bishop," analogous to a pastor, but he doesn't receive a salary from the church. That goes for all other leaders as well. Briscoe works as a powertrain engineer for Ford Motor Co. in Livonia.
"It makes for a very busy life, that's for sure," he said.
The LDS church on West Grand River Avenue in Howell has 400 members; holds services every Sunday; and has youth activities during the week.
One of the hallmarks of the church is the cooperation and support between members.
"A main focus is to provide service to one another," Briscoe said.
Members go in groups of two to visit each other on the weekends for "Home Teaching" sessions, in which they talk about spirituality and life in general, he said.
"Part of it is to see if people need help with anything," he said. "The goal is that nobody feels they don't have someone to call."
The visiting is separated by gender, with males visiting males and females visiting females.
Mormon services are not the raucous or musical affairs that other denominations celebrate.
"'Reverent' is the word we like to use," Briscoe said.
A typical service starts with the sacrament, a hymn and a prayer. Then, church members who Briscoe has spoken with beforehand give talks of about 10 minutes long on a given subject.
Non-Mormons, however, don't often get the chance to witness these services. The church has a reputation for secrecy, but Shipps said it's not just for the sake of exclusion.
"A better way to say it is what goes on in the temple is sacred and therefore private, rather than secret," she said. "All temples are closed to anyone except those who the bishop recommends."
Outreach also is an important part of the Mormon philosophy. Most men do two years of missionary work when they're around 19 years old, and unmarried women do 18 months. One of Briscoe's own sons is in Brazil right now as a missionary.
College age is an ideal time to go abroad as a missionary because it exposes one to the world, yet still gives a person time to start a family. And family, Briscoe said, is a foundational piece of the Mormon church.
"We do believe in families," he said. "We believe a man and a woman should get married and raise a family, so we encourage that."
Briscoe himself was a missionary in Spain: "I learned probably as much from that experience as I did from college."
Mormons also are aware of opportunities to tell friends and other social acquaintances about Mormonism, Briscoe said, and how to approach people is a subject of conversation in the church.
"As life goes on, you get into discussions about your beliefs," he said. "We feel like what we have is so important ... we really feel deeply that what we believe is the truth."
The church has been fairly successful in bringing more people in. There are about 6 million members of the LDS church in United States, and more than that abroad, Shipps said.
Not universally embraced Many of the church's practices have prompted criticism from other religions. Polygamy, the practice of husbands having more than one wife, may be the most enduring stereotype of Mormons. But it hasn't been practiced since 1890 by the church, and is strictly prohibited.
The LDS past practice of baptizing Jewish Holocaust victims after their death drew fierce opposition from Jewish leaders as well.
Shipps said it was done to give non-Mormons the choice in the afterlife of becoming Mormon. That's also why there's such an emphasis in the church on genealogy — so that all one's relatives can be identified and baptized, she said.
Also, black people were denied membership until 1978, when the president of the church at the time had a revelation that they should be included.
Now, Shipps said, the LDS church has made strong inroads into nonwhite areas such as Japan, South Korea and Africa.
"There may be as many people worshipping on Sunday in Spanish-speaking areas than English-speaking," she said.
Theologically, Mormonism is viewed suspiciously by some as well. The Southern Baptist Convention, for example, puts the LDS church in the category of "Cults, Sects and New Religious Movements."
Shipps said the thing that sets Mormonism apart — and ironically draws the ire of both Christians and Jews — is the belief that the church is re-gathering the twelve tribes of Israel.
"It's a very complex and interesting and powerful theology, but for those looking at it from the outside, it seems somewhat strange because it has, in addition to Christian claims, claims to be the restoration of Israel," Shipps said.
Another notable Mormon belief is that the church president is a prophet, and receives the word of God.
"We believe God does talk to man," Briscoe said. "He chooses one prophet at a time."
Regardless of the negativity and criticism they may run into, he said, most Mormons aren't swayed.
"When people say things, we're still confident and confident in what we know to be right," he said.
No needlenose only in your mind!:)
Our words sometimes are deficient in communitcating things not of this kingdom, but through pondering and prayer the Lord is able to enlighten our mind of HIS ways, which are not our ways!
1 Tim. 3
16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
Common sence tell one that is a big subject but we only have one verse on that topic!
Yes you can say will say that is only about Jesus, but you also refer Jesus as the Father, but Jesus says, he dose the will of his Father.
...and around we go...
A question for those who think Jesus and His Father are the same being why even bother with this added name if they are the same?
Why not stay with the Jewish belief only ONE God?
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Shoot, I was going to highlight this to you, but I guess you won’t be reading it:
Read Book of Mormon 3 Nephi 13:25-27:
(halfway down verse 25) Therefore I say unto you, take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air, for they sow not, neither do they reap nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature? “
It is almost identical to this verse in the KJV:
Matthew 6:25-27:“25 Therefore I say unto you, Take no thought for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the life more than meat, and the body than raiment?
26 Behold the fowls of the air: for they sow not, neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better than they?
27 Which of you by taking thought can add one cubit unto his stature?”
Now, open your LDS issued KJV to the Joseph Smith Translation in the back of the book on page 802. For Matthew 6:25-27 it says:
“25. And, again, I say unto you, go ye into the world, and care not for the world: for the world will hate you, and will persecute you, and will turn you out of their synagogues. 26. Nevertheless, ye shall go forth from house to house, teaching the people; and I will go before you. 27. And your heavenly Father will provide for you whatsoever things ye need for food, what ye shall eat; and for raiment, what ye shall wear or put on.”
Joseph Smith corrected the Bible. In doing so he corrected the Book of Mormon. The Book of Mormon is the most correct book and was translated a mere decade before the JST. It was not corrupted over time. So what gives?
You seem like a rational creature. I just have to tell you my encounters with Mormons are fairly regular here in Las Vegas and many of those situations have been quite strange. My boss is Jack Mormon turned complete atheist and he backs up my observations (I am not an atheist, so please don’t claim it is the satanic non-believers who are finding fault). So you may indeed be rational, but quite a number of your brethren are not.
SHow me in the OT where God commanded anyone to take multiple wives.
In the NT Jesus clearly teaches against it.
The Gospel of Mark, And he arose from thence, and cometh into the coasts of Judaea by the farther side of Jordan: and the people resort unto him again; and, as he was wont, he taught them again.
Do you believe in sin and Hell?
It’s a new question you ask, CC, and a good one, so I’m happy to respond.
Are the meanings of the verses different? Are different doctrines taught? Remember that the Book of Mormon was translated from ancient records, like the Bible; what if the recorders of one or the other did not use the exact same words to describe the two different events? That is not a stretch of logic. Nor is it a stretch of logic to think that Christ could have used different verbiage to teach the same things; He is neither a robot nor a tape recorder.
The spirit of the two, however, is the same; the message is unified.
The words between the BOM and the KJV are exact. Didn’t you notice? The message is exact
But yet, just a few years later while Joseph Smith was “fixing” the translation errors of the Bible (that originally were identical to the wording in the BOM) he totally changed the words and inserted meaning in the JST.
That you don’t recognize this fact is quite interesting.
Thanks.
. . . I am not an atheist, so please don’t claim it is the satanic non-believers who are finding fault.
I wouldn't think of it. (I wouldn't even if you were an atheist—some of my friends are atheists.)
So you may indeed be rational, but quite a number of your brethren are not.
I do not doubt it. I have encountered a few strange, even irrational people in the LDS Church. However, most Mormons I know are reasonable people.
For a good take on it all read posts 1763, 1814 and 1875.
Very good analysis.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1812842/posts?page=1763#1763
“I find it comforting that the bigotry against Mormons (and Catholics) is pretty isolated.”
I just wish there wasn’t so much bigotry against the Church of Fast Coyote. You see, I have my own planet (”it’s called “Earth”) and I am it’s God!
Thank God (that’s me) that no one is allowed to object to the religious beliefs of another person based on logical grounds, otherwise the Church of Fast Coyote would be in trouble. I have decided to run for president, please all vote for me (God) and don’t bring my religion into it.
I’m sorry, I thought you were talking about the entire sermon. A more careful consideration of the verses in question will yield a clear answer.
The confusion you’re facing is due to the fact that you’re misreading the JST footnotes. The three JST verses you quote are INSERTED into the text, making verses 25-27 in King James verses 28-30 in JST. The verses in question were NOT changed; they were shifted.
The three verses that were inserted were specifically directed at the Twelve Apostles’ missionary charge in the Old World; it is possible that they simple weren’t written in the New World, or that Christ did not include them in the sermon as they were not applicable to the audience in the Book of Mormon.
This small incident, sadly, tends to expose your methodology; you found a little thing that you thought supported your viewpoint, so you latched onto it without considering the wider view. It’s a common human flaw to tend to ignore things that disagree with our worldview; heaven knows, I’m guilty of the same weakness. It makes me wonder, though, how many other “proofs” you have against us that are similarly specious.
I read his arguments. He is saying that Jesus said it is only one man and one woman. Well, I choose not to change what Jesus said. Jesus says only ‘a’ man to his wife. I am looking for something where Jesus is more clear. To me Jesus is just silent on this topic. If we have analyze it, then we are usually adding commentary.
Yet the whole family of Abraham came from plural Marriage from and Israel had the 12 tribes from Plural marriage.
Those at the time of Moses were living under the lesser law!
There is an event card in the scripture something like their is a scorce card in sports!
Sometimes it is at the beganning of a dispensation and other times the higher was with drawn and the people are living under the lesser law.
Without the standard works you might just lump all the events that are taking place under one umbrella.
As I stated before the Lord can employ or rescind the need of his ordinance.
If you are not aware of these laws there is no way you are going to miss them.
You will argue against them because you feel justified I am glad for the knowledge to understand why at certain times there was a need and a reason for plural marrige and other time it was not needed!
What was the need for Joseph Smith and his followers to have plural wives?
Was there a lack of men?
Did he have numerous children with those women?
I know many early Mormons did but did Smith?
Forgive me for saying this but the Mormon church would gain a huge amount of credibilty if they would just admit that polygamy is wrong and a sin, and was not God’s will.
When you start defending polygamy as the will of God, its like nails on a chalkboard.
Wrong is wrong, today, yesterday and tommorrow.
Because Jesus Christ had restored his Church on earth again
And certain things take place in a dispentsation it is caller a restoration of all things such as the priesthood again on earth and Plural Marriage was a covenant which allowed certain souls the Lord wanted enter earth in that manner!
Yes. I believe there is sin and I believe that hell is when God has no place in you. I believe Jesus saves a mankind from death without condition. I believe that Jesus paid the price for all sins for all mankind. I don’t believe that obtaining forgiveness can be done casually though.
What I don’t get is if Jesus, God and the Holy Spirit are separate in being, separate beings, how is this not polytheism?
“United in love and purpose” does not make them mono. Any three people could be united in love and purpose, so this does not distinguish it from poly.
Theologically, Mormons would have to come up with some doctrine more similar to the Trinity in order to be monotheists.
IMHO, of course.
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