Posted on 04/25/2007 6:54:31 AM PDT by NYer
“WOW -- coming from RC tradition I thought I’d never return to the Rosary. But here it is and here SHE IS. Blessed be, Mairly.”
The “here” in this message, found on herchurch.org, is Ebenezer Lutheran Church in San Francisco. But the SHE is not the Mother of God. SHE is “God/dess.”
On Wednesdays at 7 p.m., Ebenezer opens its sanctuary for the “Christian Goddess Rosary.” The church says it offers “Goddess Rosary Beads” and that “prayers and suggested meditations will be on hand as well as incense, candles and bells.”
“The Goddess rosary is grounded in traditions of the Christian Church and the proclamation of the gospel which is a vision of release from bondage for a new creation,” says the church’s web site.
The Goddess Rosary page on herchurch.org says that though “God as Father plays an important role” in Christian tradition, its “exclusive emphasis... contributes to a limited understanding of God, an understanding that supports a domination structure that oppresses and subordinates women.” Jesus used “Abba” as a “revolutionary deconstruction of domination structures of his day in both religious and social institutions.” The modern task is to do the same with “Goddess.”
Ebenezer, however, does not want to eradicate masculine images of God but to balance them with feminine images to “confront the biblical texts, products of their day and cultures, for the blatant patriarchal biases and misogynist attitudes.” And herchurch.org cites three Catholic theologians in support this confrontation: Harvard’s Elizabeth Schüssler Fiorenza, Fordham University’s Sister Elizabeth Johnson, and Rosemary Radford Ruether (who will lecture students in the course, “The History of God in Feminist Theological Discourse,” at LA’s Mount St. Mary’s College this spring.) Ruether calls the exclusive use of male imagery for God “idolatry.”
Herchurch.org offers a “Hail Goddess” prayer by feminist theologian Carol Christ, formerly of Harvard Divinity School but now director of the Ariadne Institute for Myth and Ritual in Greece. The prayer goes: “Hail Goddess full of grace. Blessed are you and blessed are all the fruits of your womb. For you are the MOTHER of us all. Hear us now and in all our needs. O blessed be, O blessed be. Amen.”
“I felt that I had stepped into a Presence, like a mother’s warm embrace,” wrote Dalyn Cook of Ebenezer’s Goddess Rosary. “The attendees were few in number, yet there was a sense of fullness in this welcoming space. I inhaled deeply the earthy scent of the incense, sending up delicate tendrils of smoke which curled around the altar in a nimbus visible against the warm rays of the evening sun filtering through the stained-glass windows....
“From the basket of rosaries, I took into my hand a strand of vibrantly-colored beads with a silver goddess icon in place of the traditional cross. The goddesses came in a variety of shapes and sizes, celebrating the beauty of the feminine form; I found reflections of my own figure in the full hips and Rubenesque curves of my goddess,” Cook wrote.
I’m thankful for and Praise God for that distinction and difference.
Nevertheless, it doesn’t wash away all the other OVERADORATION stuff that SOME PERCENTAGE of RC folks fall prey to idolatry just as some percentage of Proties do. I SUSPECT but do not know, that the percentage of RC’s is higher because of the inherent features of the RC edifice overtly facilitating, even encouraging such.
Yes, encouraging such.
I did not say deliberately encouraging such, though I suspect, in some cases, for some leaders, even that is true.
But the customs, !!!!TRADITIONS!!!! of man built up over the centuries do encourage such. It is OBVIOUS to those with enough objectivity to look at the picture from some perspective other than the perspective immersed in it.
Meanwhile, I’ve been trying to find out if there’s any archaeological evidence to support bead use by early pagans. Wading through all of the neopagan use of them makes the task more difficult.
Very good, Kolo. I actually don't bother trying to convince the apostate Protestant community that the Church never did, doesn't and never will treach that Mary is a "goddess" except in their Deformed minds. Ignore them and like all demons they will simply go away.
Does your church teach you that we’re all demons? Is that the official church teaching about all who are raised in traditions other than your own?
Well, but isn't the mark of adoration primarily in offering sacrifice? Even if there is "too much" emphasis on Mary...we still are not in any way the same as those pagan mystery religions because *we offer no sacrifice to her*. Zero. None.
It is OBVIOUS to those with enough objectivity to look at the picture from some perspective other than the perspective immersed in it.
LOL...look, I come from an Italian family. Try seeing Anglo-American evangelicals through MY eyes...it might very much surprise you how utterly provincial and culturally biased some forms of American Protestant Christianity are.
Like folks who say that Christ drank "grape juice" instead of wine. Wow.
If I was a Protestant, maybe I would. I'm more honest than most. Maybe that is why you don't" like my tone".
However, since I have the Word of God, I am quite able to read Romans for myself and come to the same conclusion that Martin Luther did. As "Pope", Billy Graham can preach this same Word to me, uncut, uncommented upon, and, I can reach the same conclusions. All on my own.
James and Jude!?!?! Dude, read your Bible and try not overlook the fact that there has been a history in the last 2000 years.
The tradition you follow teaches that only your denomination was spared, as She has been given special protection by the Holy Spirit. From my POV, if She had never gotten into error the Reformation would have never happened. Intermingling Church & state was the error I'm talking about & it is one that many of the Reformers repeated.
Most Protestants will not defend the errors of those who founded our denominations, as we recognize that they were fallible men...
BTW, Christianity is *always* capitalized.
“And, one would have thought that since Jesus was Jewish, He taught in Jewish synagogues, he was to be King of the Jews (had they not killed him), that his language would have been Hebrew...”
Nope; I’m afraid you’re wrong on that on Iscool. He spoke in Aramaic and Greek. Hebrew, as another Freeper pointed out, was a dead, liturgical language in the time of Christ. The scriptures He and His apostles read, by the way, were written in Greek.
No it doesn't! It's my personal opinion of some, not all. There are many Protestants who are as Christian as can be. Having read and dealt with them on faceless forums where all the masks are off, I have no doubt, seeing their continued insulting and provoking attacks on Mary as "goddess" for no reason (least of all Christian), that their father is the devil.
There are some among the Catholic and Orthodox who venerate Mary in ways that appear as idolatry, and such devotion -- which I find objectionable -- is actually against Church teaching, but these are individual cases, not Church doctrine.
And, since you asked, does your assembly teach that Mary is a "goddess?"
Word of advice: if you don't like our traditions, mind your own. Is it proper to berate the Jews for not being Christian? Try to live a life in Christ and let Him be the Judge.
Yes, but can you reach the same conclusion Paul did?
I can reach the same conclusions. All on my own.
Great! While you're reading scripture, don't forget this one... John 5:39 You search the scriptures, because you think that in them you have eternal life; and it is they that bear witness to me; 40 yet you refuse to come to me that you may have life.
It isn't a significant logical leap to assume that Jesus saw a need for someone to teach the Scriptures to the people. Private interpretation leads to multiple revelations and a disjointed church. Christianity is the religion of the Word, not of a book. The Word is a person--Jesus Christ.
Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved
and that was the start of the Christian church, no matter what you want to believe.
I'm glad to hear that. I could never consider joining a church that had something like that as part of official teaching, as it is so contrary to my own understanding.
It's my personal opinion of some, not all.
We're all sinners, so how do you go about differentiating which of us are so far gone as to make us disposable?
Having read and dealt with them on faceless forums where all the masks are off, I have no doubt, seeing their continued insulting and provoking attacks on Mary as "goddess" for no reason (least of all Christian), that their father is the devil.
I've never seen anyone on the boards attack Mary, though there are plenty who attack everything that looks like elevating her to anything resembling creating her a goddess. There are some things where the only productive thing to do is agree to disagree & move on. The treatment of Mary is just one of those problem areas. I'm sure Satan is quite happy that this issue festers between us, keeps us divided & starts us attacking one another.
There are some among the Catholic and Orthodox who venerate Mary in ways that appear as idolatry, and such devotion -- which I find objectionable -- is actually against Church teaching, but these are individual cases, not Church doctrine.
I know that. Failure to venerate Mary was not among Luther's sins...
And, since you asked, does your assembly teach that Mary is a "goddess?"
I am not a member of any assembly. The church of my youth was ELCA. Much of that church flew out into orbit a long time ago & so I quit shortly after my Confirmation. For complicated reasons, I never joined any other. I've kinda been shopping, which is one of the reasons I asked you the question I did. Impending death has a real knack for prodding one. LOL
Try to live a life in Christ and let Him be the Judge.
Amen!
Feel free to try again... in English this time...
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