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DISPENSATIONALISM: Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth
John Stevenson Bible Study Page ^ | John Stevenson

Posted on 04/12/2007 12:23:10 PM PDT by topcat54

DISPENSATIONALISM

Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth

Dispensationalism is a doctrinal system that keeps Israel and the Church distinct. This system teaches that throughout history God is seen to have two distinct purposes and two distinct people and these distinctions are maintained throughout eternity (or at least throughout the end of the millennium).

The question is whether the Bible teaches of such a division. To the contrary, the Bible teaches that God has taken all of His people and made them ONE. "For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity." (Ephesians 2:14-16).

 

DISPENSATIONAL DISTINCTIVES

DISTINCTION #1: Plan & Purpose of God.

Dispensationalism teaches that God has two separate plans and two separate and distinct peoples through whom He works - Israel and the Church.

The Bible teaches that God has ONE unified people. In the Old Testament that was Israel, but even then not all Israel was Israel, but only those who entered into covenant relationship of faith in God. Those who are not of faith are not His people. And those who are of faith are His people. This is true in every age. This is why Paul can say that "those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham" (Galatians 3:7).

DISTINCTION #2: The Law.

Dispensationalism says that the Mosaic Law is done away in Christ.

It is true that the Bible sees the Ceremonial Law as being fulfilled in Christ, but the Moral Law as contained in the Ten Commandments are repeated throughout the New Testament, showing that those commands are still in force (though admittedly the nature of the Sabbath is described differently since we have now entered into the rest provided by Christ). Indeed, Jesus Himself said, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17). Does His fulfillment of the Law mean that it has passed away? To the contrary, He explains His meaning with a careful and sober warning: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19).

DISTINCTION #3: The Nature of the Church.

Dispensationalism sees the church as a parenthesis, a temporary situation lying between God's two dealings with Israel.

The Bible sees the church as the culmination of all God's people, the very body of Christ and the fullness of God. Paul speaks of the message given to him "to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things; in order that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 3:9-10). Far from being a parenthesis, the church is the culmination of something begun in Old Testament times. Paul goes on to point out that "this was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Ephesians 3:11).

DISTINCTION #4: Church in the Old Testament.

Dispensationalism usually teaches that the church is neither found nor mentioned in the Old Testament.

The Bible states that the Old Testament DID look forward to a time when Gentiles would enter into the Covenant. The promised Messiah was to be both a "covenant to the people, and a light to the nations" (Psalm 42:6). God also said, "I will call those who were not My people, 'My people'" (Romans 9:24-25).

Paul is specific to tell us that the coming of Gentiles into the church was a confirmation of "the promises given to the fathers, and for the Gentiles to glorify God for His mercy; as it is written, 'Therefore I will give praise to Thee among the Gentiles, And I will sing to Thy name'" (Romans 15:8-9).

Peter says that "the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search and inquiry, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you" (1 Peter 1:10-12). The Old Testament prophets not only prophesied of those glories that would follow the cross, but also acknowledged that their prophecies were to benefit the future church.

DISTINCTION #5: Old Testament Promises.

Dispensationalism says that all of the promises given in the Old Testament must be fulfilled to a political nation of Israel.

Over and over again, the Bible sees these promises being fulfilled to the Church as the "Spiritual Israel" and people of God. The Bible teaches us that "they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel" (Romans 9:6). Conversely, we have already seen how the presence of Gentiles in the church was a fulfillment of the Old Testament promise that God would "call those who were not My people, 'My people'" (Romans 9:24-25).

The writer to the Hebrews says that those Old Testament saints "did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they should not be made perfect" (Hebrews 11:39-40). This is completely antithetical to the Dispensational teaching that says, "Israel gets the promises to Israel and the church gets the promises to the church and never the twain shall meet."

It is significant that when James wanted to demonstrate the legitimacy of the New Testament program of bringing Gentiles into the church, he turned to the Old Testament, saying, "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, ‘After these things I will return, and I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen, and I will rebuild its ruins, And I will restore it, in order that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by My name'" (Acts 15:14-17). The passage to which James turned was that of Amos 9:11-12.

Old Testament Prophecy

New Testament Fulfillment

"I will rebuild the Tabernacle of David"

The growth of the church

"...in order that the rest of mankind may see the Lord"

Gentiles to become Christians in the growing church.

James had no problems looking to the events that were going on in the church of his day and seeing them as fulfillments of Old Testament prophecies.

 

DISTINCTION #6: Two Comings of Christ Versus One.

Dispensationalism teaches that Christ will return to the earth is a secret "Rapture" in which all believers will be removed from the earth. This is later followed by the "Second Coming of Christ" which is a distinct and separate event.

The Bible teaches that there is ONE future coming of Christ in which "every eye shall see Him" and "every knee shall bow." Instead of a second and third future coming, the Bible teaches that Christ, "having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him" (Hebrews 9:28). For further discussion on the Dispensational "Rapture" Theory, see The Rapture Question and A Critique of the Evidences for a Pretribulational Rapture.

DISPENSATIONALISM VERSUS COVENANT THEOLOGY

Dispensationalism can best be understood in light of a contrast with what has come to be known as "Covenant Theology."

Dispensationalism

Covenant Theology

Stresses "literal" interpretation of the Bible

Accepts both literal and figurative (spiritual) interpretation of the Bible

"Israel" always means only the literal, physical descendants of Jacob

"Israel" may mean either physical descendants of Jacob, or spiritual Israel, depending on context

"Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16 means physical Israel alone

"Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16 means spiritual Israel, parallel to Gal. 3:29; Rom. 2:28-29; 9:6; Phil. 3:3.

God has 2 peoples with 2 separate destinies: Israel (earthly) and the Church (heavenly).

God has one covenant people. Those in this age have become a part of God's continuing covenant people.

All Old Testament prophecies for "Israel" are only for the physical nation of Israel, not for the Church

Some Old Testament prophecies are for national Israel, others for spiritual Israel

The Church is a parenthesis in God's program for the ages

The Church is the culmination of God's saving purpose for the ages

The main heir to Abraham's covenant was Isaac and literal Israel

The main heir to Abraham's covenant was Christ, the Seed, and spiritual Israel which is "in Christ"

Jesus made an offer of the literal Kingdom to Israel; since Israel rejected it, it is postponed

Jesus made only an offer of the Spiritual Kingdom, which was rejected by literal Israel but has gradually been accepted by spiritual Israel

Teaches that the Millennium is the Kingdom of God. They are always Premillennial, usually Pre-tribulation

The Church is the Kingdom of God. This can be interpreted both within the Premillennial, Post Millennial or Amillennial framework.

The Old Testament animal sacrifices will be restored in the Millennium, as a memorial only

The Old Testament sacrifices were fulfilled and forever abolished in Christ

 

THE TERM "DISPENSATION"

The word "dispensation" is translated from the Greek word OIKONOMIA. This term is used three times in Luke 16:2-4. All three times it refers to the responsibilities of a servant (or a steward). It is used in 1 Corinthians 9:17 to describe the responsibilities which the Lord had laid specifically upon Paul.

Ephesians 1:10 speaks of the purpose which God had in centering and "administering" all things in Christ. Ephesians 3:2 speaks of Paul's special ministry to the Gentiles. If this is to be considered a separate Dispensation in the Theological sense, then we must also conclude that the other apostles were still stuck in the previous Dispensation to the Jews. Colossians 1:25 does the same thing, speaking of the stewardship which the Lord had placed upon Paul - the stewardship of the preaching of the Word of God. 1 Timothy 1:4 urges Timothy to pay attention to the EDIFYING (i.e., the administration) of the things of the Lord.

Not once do we ever see the term "dispensation" used in the Bible in the manner that is used by Dispensationalists.

 

THE "DOUBLE VISION" OF DISPENSATIONALISM

Have you ever tried to deliberately cross your eyes? The result is that your vision becomes blurred and you begin to see things with a "double vision." If you are looking at a coffee mug, you will instead see two of them. Dispensationalism suffers from this kind of spiritual myopia.

I believe that to view the Scriptures through the lens of Dispensationalism creates a distorted view of the Bible, the church and the Lord's revealed program for the ages.


TOPICS: Theology
KEYWORDS: dispensationalism
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To: editor-surveyor; Uncle Chip; Lee N. Field

Thanks for that, but you highlighted 13:6 in particular. That’s where my comment was directed. I don’t think I got an answer.

Can we expect some futurist press conference with Jesus?


81 posted on 04/16/2007 8:21:29 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: topcat54; editor-surveyor
Justin Martyr did.

Did he really? I have this from Justin Martyr:

"I and others who are right-minded Christians on all points are assured that there will be a resurrection of the dead, and a thousand years in Jerusalem, which will then be built ... For Isaiah spoke in that manner concerning this period of a thousand years."[Justin Martyr from A Dictionary of Christian Beliefs. David W. Bercot, Editor]

And this also from Justin Martyr:

""There was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem".

82 posted on 04/16/2007 8:49:15 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: topcat54; editor-surveyor
I believe Christ will appear a second time to eschatologically complete what He began at His first coming.

I wonder if you could clarify this statement of yours above: Will Jesus come physically in the flesh to this earth a second time in order to complete this?

83 posted on 04/16/2007 8:58:58 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: ScubieNuc
Could you explain what you mean in clearer terms?

"Soul winning" is generally associated with that Christian subculture which regards the "flesh" as inferior and the "spirit" superior (pseudo-gnostics), and thus the work of preaching the gospel is directed at saving souls in anticipation of the rapture.

"Kingdom building" I view as a more fully orbed approach to preaching the gospel which see all of man, complete in body and soul, as being the object of Christ's salvation program, in both this world and the next.

And, by extension, the world becomes open to the positive effect of the gospel as well. "For God so loved the world ...". Kingdom builders can see the work of bringing the good news in activities such as holding political office, creating beautiful art, or even cleaning streets. "Soul winners" tend to view traditional "evangelists" as the only means to their end.

Kingdom builders are "soul winners" in the best sense, but that is not always the case with the first group. They often see Kingdom building" as akin to polishing brass on a sinking ship.

An interesting article on the subject is Gnosticism, the Soul-Only “Gospel,” and the End Times .

As a side question, if you don't believe that modern day Israel is related to the Israel mentioned in the Bible, do you believe that America does not need to support or help her?

The United States of America as a political entity should assist all her political allies, whether they be England, Germany, Israel, Japan, South Korea, etc. There is no reason to treat Israel as politically different from any other nation.

However, I believe the US already spends far too much money bailing out its political friends with foreign aid. I would not oppose an across the board cutback including Israel.

84 posted on 04/16/2007 9:00:08 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: Uncle Chip; editor-surveyor
Will Jesus come physically in the flesh to this earth a second time in order to complete this?

I believe Jesus will appear bodily, physically (with the same body with which He ascended to the Father) a second time in the future.

Whether He will actually step on the current thing we call the earth is a question still in my mind. It may well be that His contact will only be with the new heavens and new earth, since the recreation of heavens and earth is part of the chronology for His return.

85 posted on 04/16/2007 9:04:36 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: topcat54; editor-surveyor
Whether He will actually step on the current thing we call the earth is a question still in my mind. It may well be that His contact will only be with the new heavens and new earth, since the recreation of heavens and earth is part of the chronology for His return.

And yet Job in Chapter 19:23-26 records the following:

"Oh that my words were now written! Oh that they were printed in a book! That they were graven with an iron pen and lead in the rock for ever!

"For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth. And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God."

86 posted on 04/16/2007 9:49:46 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: Uncle Chip; editor-surveyor
"For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth. And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God."

Well, seeing that Job was written many years before Jesus' first appearance, that certainly seems to have been made true. The Redeemer of Israel did appear on the earth.

87 posted on 04/16/2007 10:05:24 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: Uncle Chip; editor-surveyor
Did he really?

By most accounts Justin was what we would call premillenarian.

As my quote indicated Justin believed there we other sincere, orthodox Christians who held another view of the millennium

Also, do not confuse Justin's premillennialism with modern dispensationalism.

Justin believed that the Church was the fulfillment of all the promises to Israel, basically the subject of his Dialog with Trypho.

88 posted on 04/16/2007 10:10:54 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: Uncle Chip; editor-surveyor; topcat54
UC:Do you know of any ante-Nicene father who was not Premillenial?

e-s:If they were scholars of renown, surely he'd have named them....

For starters: Mathetes, Hermas, Clement of Rome, Didache, Barnabas, Irenaeus, Hegesippus, Origen, Victorinus of Pettau, Coracion, Methodius, Eusebius, Augustine.

89 posted on 04/16/2007 10:13:44 AM PDT by Frumanchu (Historical Revisionism: When you're tired of being on the losing side of history.)
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To: editor-surveyor
Distinction between Rapture & 2nd Advent
RAPTURE
Feature
Rapture
VERSE
2nd ADVENT
Feature
2nd ADVENT
VERSE
Private Acts 1:11 Public Rev 1:7
Occurs in the Air 1Thes 4:17 Occurs on Earth Zech 14:4
Church goes to Heaven Jn 14:3 Church returns with Christ 1Thes 3:13
Judgment of
believer's works
2Cor 5:10 Baptism by Fire Matt 25:31-46
Removal of the ministry of
Holy Spirit as Restrainer
2Thes 2:6-7 Removal of
Satan
Rev 20:1-3
Change in
believer's body
Phil 3:21 Change in the Earth Zech 14:9
Rom 8:19-22
End of Church Age Col 1:25-28
Eph 3:1-5
Rom 16:25-26
End of Jewish Age
Israel still under
divine discipline
Discipline ended for Israel
Believer taken
from Earth
1Thes 4:16-18 Unbeliever taken
from Earth
Matt 24:37-43
Source of comfort 1Thes 4:18 Source of terror Rev 6:15-17



90 posted on 04/16/2007 10:43:50 AM PDT by Cvengr (The violence of evil is met with the violence of righteousness, justice, love and grace.)
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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip; Lee N. Field
"Thanks for that, but you highlighted 13:6 in particular. That’s where my comment was directed. I don’t think I got an answer.
Can we expect some futurist press conference with Jesus?"

And you wonder why few bother to answer your questions.

Your questions run from the wimsically condescending such as this, to the overtly mendacious 'have you stopped blaspheming the Holy Spirit' type assaults.

Yes, we can expect the Lord to return physically to the earth, and do battle with the assembled nations (NATO) and defeat "That man of sin," the satanically indwelt political and spiritual leader of the world, that it will take the prophecied period to bury the dead, and the millenial reign will begin at that time.

What I won't go out on a limb on is whether the northern tribes will have returned before, or after that time, although I lean somewhat toward before.

91 posted on 04/16/2007 10:59:32 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Cvengr; editor-surveyor; Frumanchu; Uncle Chip
We, let’s just take one feature of this arbitrary table and check it out with the Bible.

Rapture: Private Acts 1:11
Rapture: Occurs in the Air 1Thes 4:17

“Now when He had spoken these things, while they watched, He was taken up, and a cloud received Him out of their sight. 10 And while they looked steadfastly toward heaven as He went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel, 11 who also said, "Men of Galilee, why do you stand gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, who was taken up from you into heaven, will so come in like manner as you saw Him go into heaven."” (Acts 1:9-11)

“For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.” (1 Thess. 4:16,17)

Let me observe a few things.

Jesus was literally on the earth when He was taken up, not in the air. So either Acts 1 is incorrect, or it is speaking of some other event and this author of this table is just plain wrong regarding the "rapture" being a "private" event.

The language of 1 Thessalonians 4 belies the futurist claim that it is a “private” event. “For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God.” This is the voice of the herld of the King come to claim His kingdom. “Then comes the end, when He delivers the kingdom to God the Father, when He puts an end to all rule and all authority and power. 25 For He must reign till He has put all enemies under His feet.” (1 Cor. 15:24,25)

92 posted on 04/16/2007 11:08:56 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: topcat54; editor-surveyor
"For I know that my Redeemer liveth, and that He shall stand at the latter day upon the earth. And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God."

Well, seeing that Job was written many years before Jesus' first appearance, that certainly seems to have been made true. The Redeemer of Israel did appear on the earth.

Yes, but did Job in his flesh see Him at that time, or will he see Him on this earth at a later time?

93 posted on 04/16/2007 11:19:42 AM PDT by Uncle Chip (TRUTH : Ignore it. Deride it. Allegorize it. Interpret it. But you can't ESCAPE it.)
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To: editor-surveyor; Uncle Chip; Lee N. Field; Frumanchu
I still do not see how your claim regarding Zech. 13:6 is a slam dunk for the futurist theories.

Call them condescending or mendacious or whatever you will, the fact is that you have a set of assumptions that many folks cannot buy hook, line, and sinker, and when you are asked about them you resort to obfuscation and other diversion tactics.

I have a whole series of questions and observations about the prophecy of Zech 12-14.

Yes, we can expect the Lord to return physically to the earth, and do battle with the assembled nations (NATO) and defeat …

NATO! Wholly cow. Last week it was the G8 and before that it was the EU and 30 years ago it was the Common Market.

Which TV guru is pushing the NATO line this week?

that it will take the prophecied period to bury the dead,

Just out of curiosity, how many people have to die and have their blood shed so that it comes “up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs” (Rev. 14:20)?

94 posted on 04/16/2007 11:23:10 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: Uncle Chip; editor-surveyor
Yes, but did Job in his flesh see Him at that time, or will he see Him on this earth at a later time?

Well, for one the two things are not necessarily linked in reality, although they may have been linked in Job’s mind.

Christ did stand upon the earth and Job will see God in the flesh when he (Job) is resurrected from the dead.

In Job’s case that will not happen until after the Second Coming. Certainly that will happen in the new heavens and new earth.

95 posted on 04/16/2007 11:28:13 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: Cvengr; editor-surveyor; Uncle Chip; Frumanchu; Lee N. Field; Dr. Eckleburg
“This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day..” (John 6:39)

Literally speaking, how does the pre-tribber interpret this passage? What event(s) is(are) being referred to?

96 posted on 04/16/2007 11:42:51 AM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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To: topcat54; Uncle Chip; Lee N. Field; Cvengr; Frumanchu
"the fact is that you have a set of assumptions that many folks cannot buy hook, line, and sinker, and when you are asked about them you resort to obfuscation and other diversion tactics."

There you go again. You constantly bloviate with these accusations, rather than discuss rationally what has been presented, that always demolishes your position. There is no way to debate anything with you.

"NATO! Wholly cow. Last week it was the G8 and before that it was the EU and 30 years ago it was the Common Market."

Nice smoke screen, but common markets don't go to war. NATO has been the military wing of the Roman empire for almost as long as I have been alive, and their reach continues to extend, now even into the Baltic states, so any major military excursion on planet earth will most likely be carried out by them.

"Just out of curiosity, how many people have to die and have their blood shed so that it comes “up to the horses' bridles, for one thousand six hundred furlongs” (Rev. 14:20)?"

Why don't you just come out and say that you don't believe God's word? Skip the frivolous, derrisive, condescending quips, and come out of the closet.

97 posted on 04/16/2007 11:54:19 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: topcat54; Cvengr; Uncle Chip; Lee N. Field
"Literally speaking, how does the pre-tribber interpret this passage?"

"That last day" begins when the Lord sets foot on earth bodily, and it lasts for one thousand years, exactly as Peter explained.

98 posted on 04/16/2007 12:00:15 PM PDT by editor-surveyor (Turning the general election into a second Democrat primary is not a winning strategy.)
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To: Cvengr
I posted a link to this very graphic a week or so ago, and called it "bad gospel" then.

Do you want to stand by what's written in the lower right corner (to wit, that the millennium is under a "works no faith" regime)?

99 posted on 04/16/2007 1:06:26 PM PDT by Lee N. Field
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To: editor-surveyor; Uncle Chip; Lee N. Field; Cvengr; Frumanchu
Welcome to the big leagues.

Nice smoke screen, but common markets don't go to war. NATO has been the military wing of the Roman empire for almost

Roman Empire??? This is the 21st century, isn't it? Where is the emperor and senate for this "Roman Empire"?

“In spite of the vain striving of man, of the bold and infamous conquerors throughout the ages who failed in their human attempts, we are beginning to see the Ancient Roman Empire draw together, just as predicted... We believe that the Common Market and the trend toward unification in Europe may well be the beginning of the ten-nation confederacy predicted by Daniel and the Book of Revelation... In spite of those who propose the alternatives to the United States of Europe, and the temporary setbacks it appears to have, it seems that the trend is ever onward... At about 1980 we may fully expect the great fusion of all economic, military, and political communities into the United States of Europe... Imagine that. A "ten-nation economic entity." Is it any wonder that men who have studied prophecy for many years believe that the basic beginning of the unification of Europe has begun?”

Hal Lindsey, The Late Great Planet Earth, pp. 96-97

“We believe that the Common Market and the trend toward unification of Europe may well be the beginning of the ten-nation confederacy predicted by Daniel and the Book of Revelation... 'At about 1980 we may fully expect the great fusion of all economic, military, and political communities together into the United States of Europe.'”

Ibid, p. 96

“When I wrote that in Late Great, the only possible successor to the Roman Empire (in my opinion) was the European Common Market. But a decade ago, that organization had just six member nations, not the 10 the Bible forecast. In 1979, Greece became the 10th member of the Common Market. Recently, the Common Market went beyond its original economic and trade functions and elected a parliament. This move will eventually fulfill the Common Market's long range goal - to unify its members into a single political body.”

Hal Lindsey, The 1980's: Countdown to Armageddon , p. 15

(May be a bit before your time.)

The Roman Empire is long gone. It was defeated by the Kingdom of Jesus Christ and will never be revived. That's actually what the Word of God says; “And in the days of these kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom which shall never be destroyed; and the kingdom shall not be left to other people; it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand forever.” (Dan. 2:44).

Why don't you just come out and say that you don't believe God's word? Skip the frivolous, derrisive, condescending quips, and come out of the closet.

Is this the way you attempt to engage in dialog? By accusing others who disagree with your hard-to-believe eschatology of not believing God’s Word? Sad.

The questions may seem frivolous to you, esp. when you have no answers, but they are not intended to be frivolous.

If you don't have any literalist answer to hard questions, just say so.

Face is, you have no direct answers to hard question about your theories. And when folks ask hard question you run for the tall grass.

100 posted on 04/16/2007 1:27:59 PM PDT by topcat54 ("Light beer is the devil’s beverage.")
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