Posted on 04/12/2007 12:23:10 PM PDT by topcat54
DISPENSATIONALISM
Wrongly Dividing the Word of Truth Dispensationalism is a doctrinal system that keeps Israel and the Church distinct. This system teaches that throughout history God is seen to have two distinct purposes and two distinct people and these distinctions are maintained throughout eternity (or at least throughout the end of the millennium). The question is whether the Bible teaches of such a division. To the contrary, the Bible teaches that God has taken all of His people and made them ONE. "For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one, and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity." (Ephesians 2:14-16). DISPENSATIONAL DISTINCTIVES DISTINCTION #1: Plan & Purpose of God.
Dispensationalism teaches that God has two separate plans and two separate and distinct peoples through whom He works - Israel and the Church.
The Bible teaches that God has ONE unified people. In the Old Testament that was Israel, but even then not all Israel was Israel, but only those who entered into covenant relationship of faith in God. Those who are not of faith are not His people. And those who are of faith are His people. This is true in every age. This is why Paul can say that "those who are of faith who are sons of Abraham" (Galatians 3:7).
DISTINCTION #2: The Law.
Dispensationalism says that the Mosaic Law is done away in Christ.
It is true that the Bible sees the Ceremonial Law as being fulfilled in Christ, but the Moral Law as contained in the Ten Commandments are repeated throughout the New Testament, showing that those commands are still in force (though admittedly the nature of the Sabbath is described differently since we have now entered into the rest provided by Christ). Indeed, Jesus Himself said, "Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill" (Matthew 5:17). Does His fulfillment of the Law mean that it has passed away? To the contrary, He explains His meaning with a careful and sober warning: "Whoever then annuls one of the least of these commandments, and so teaches others, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but whoever keeps and teaches them, he shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven" (Matthew 5:19).
DISTINCTION #3: The Nature of the Church.
Dispensationalism sees the church as a parenthesis, a temporary situation lying between God's two dealings with Israel.
The Bible sees the church as the culmination of all God's people, the very body of Christ and the fullness of God. Paul speaks of the message given to him "to bring to light what is the administration of the mystery which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things; in order that the manifold wisdom of God might now be made known through the church to the rulers and the authorities in the heavenly places" (Ephesians 3:9-10). Far from being a parenthesis, the church is the culmination of something begun in Old Testament times. Paul goes on to point out that "this was in accordance with the eternal purpose which He carried out in Christ Jesus our Lord" (Ephesians 3:11).
DISTINCTION #4: Church in the Old Testament.
Dispensationalism usually teaches that the church is neither found nor mentioned in the Old Testament.
The Bible states that the Old Testament DID look forward to a time when Gentiles would enter into the Covenant. The promised Messiah was to be both a "covenant to the people, and a light to the nations" (Psalm 42:6). God also said, "I will call those who were not My people, 'My people'" (Romans 9:24-25).
Paul is specific to tell us that the coming of Gentiles into the church was a confirmation of "the promises given to the fathers, and for the Gentiles to glorify God for His mercy; as it is written, 'Therefore I will give praise to Thee among the Gentiles, And I will sing to Thy name'" (Romans 15:8-9).
Peter says that "the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful search and inquiry, seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow. It was revealed to them that they were not serving themselves, but you" (1 Peter 1:10-12). The Old Testament prophets not only prophesied of those glories that would follow the cross, but also acknowledged that their prophecies were to benefit the future church.
DISTINCTION #5: Old Testament Promises.
Dispensationalism says that all of the promises given in the Old Testament must be fulfilled to a political nation of Israel.
Over and over again, the Bible sees these promises being fulfilled to the Church as the "Spiritual Israel" and people of God. The Bible teaches us that "they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel" (Romans 9:6). Conversely, we have already seen how the presence of Gentiles in the church was a fulfillment of the Old Testament promise that God would "call those who were not My people, 'My people'" (Romans 9:24-25).
The writer to the Hebrews says that those Old Testament saints "did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they should not be made perfect" (Hebrews 11:39-40). This is completely antithetical to the Dispensational teaching that says, "Israel gets the promises to Israel and the church gets the promises to the church and never the twain shall meet."
It is significant that when James wanted to demonstrate the legitimacy of the New Testament program of bringing Gentiles into the church, he turned to the Old Testament, saying, "Simeon has related how God first concerned Himself about taking from among the Gentiles a people for His name. And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written, ‘After these things I will return, and I will rebuild the tabernacle of David which has fallen, and I will rebuild its ruins, And I will restore it, in order that the rest of mankind may seek the Lord, and all the Gentiles who are called by My name'" (Acts 15:14-17). The passage to which James turned was that of Amos 9:11-12.
Old Testament Prophecy |
New Testament Fulfillment |
"I will rebuild the Tabernacle of David" |
The growth of the church |
"...in order that the rest of mankind may see the Lord" |
Gentiles to become Christians in the growing church. |
James had no problems looking to the events that were going on in the church of his day and seeing them as fulfillments of Old Testament prophecies.
DISTINCTION #6: Two Comings of Christ Versus One.
Dispensationalism teaches that Christ will return to the earth is a secret "Rapture" in which all believers will be removed from the earth. This is later followed by the "Second Coming of Christ" which is a distinct and separate event.
The Bible teaches that there is ONE future coming of Christ in which "every eye shall see Him" and "every knee shall bow." Instead of a second and third future coming, the Bible teaches that Christ, "having been offered once to bear the sins of many, shall appear a second time for salvation without reference to sin, to those who eagerly await Him" (Hebrews 9:28). For further discussion on the Dispensational "Rapture" Theory, see The Rapture Question and A Critique of the Evidences for a Pretribulational Rapture.
DISPENSATIONALISM VERSUS COVENANT THEOLOGY Dispensationalism can best be understood in light of a contrast with what has come to be known as "Covenant Theology."
Dispensationalism |
Covenant Theology |
Stresses "literal" interpretation of the Bible |
Accepts both literal and figurative (spiritual) interpretation of the Bible |
"Israel" always means only the literal, physical descendants of Jacob |
"Israel" may mean either physical descendants of Jacob, or spiritual Israel, depending on context |
"Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16 means physical Israel alone |
"Israel of God" in Galatians 6:16 means spiritual Israel, parallel to Gal. 3:29; Rom. 2:28-29; 9:6; Phil. 3:3. |
God has 2 peoples with 2 separate destinies: Israel (earthly) and the Church (heavenly). |
God has one covenant people. Those in this age have become a part of God's continuing covenant people. |
All Old Testament prophecies for "Israel" are only for the physical nation of Israel, not for the Church |
Some Old Testament prophecies are for national Israel, others for spiritual Israel |
The Church is a parenthesis in God's program for the ages |
The Church is the culmination of God's saving purpose for the ages |
The main heir to Abraham's covenant was Isaac and literal Israel |
The main heir to Abraham's covenant was Christ, the Seed, and spiritual Israel which is "in Christ" |
Jesus made an offer of the literal Kingdom to Israel; since Israel rejected it, it is postponed |
Jesus made only an offer of the Spiritual Kingdom, which was rejected by literal Israel but has gradually been accepted by spiritual Israel |
Teaches that the Millennium is the Kingdom of God. They are always Premillennial, usually Pre-tribulation |
The Church is the Kingdom of God. This can be interpreted both within the Premillennial, Post Millennial or Amillennial framework. |
The Old Testament animal sacrifices will be restored in the Millennium, as a memorial only |
The Old Testament sacrifices were fulfilled and forever abolished in Christ |
THE TERM "DISPENSATION" The word "dispensation" is translated from the Greek word OIKONOMIA. This term is used three times in Luke 16:2-4. All three times it refers to the responsibilities of a servant (or a steward). It is used in 1 Corinthians 9:17 to describe the responsibilities which the Lord had laid specifically upon Paul. Ephesians 1:10 speaks of the purpose which God had in centering and "administering" all things in Christ. Ephesians 3:2 speaks of Paul's special ministry to the Gentiles. If this is to be considered a separate Dispensation in the Theological sense, then we must also conclude that the other apostles were still stuck in the previous Dispensation to the Jews. Colossians 1:25 does the same thing, speaking of the stewardship which the Lord had placed upon Paul - the stewardship of the preaching of the Word of God. 1 Timothy 1:4 urges Timothy to pay attention to the EDIFYING (i.e., the administration) of the things of the Lord. Not once do we ever see the term "dispensation" used in the Bible in the manner that is used by Dispensationalists. THE "DOUBLE VISION" OF DISPENSATIONALISM Have you ever tried to deliberately cross your eyes? The result is that your vision becomes blurred and you begin to see things with a "double vision." If you are looking at a coffee mug, you will instead see two of them. Dispensationalism suffers from this kind of spiritual myopia.
I believe that to view the Scriptures through the lens of Dispensationalism creates a distorted view of the Bible, the church and the Lord's revealed program for the ages.
1) It is in direct contradiction with scripture. Sin entered the (this) world through Adam. Prior to that, God had no reason to destroy the world
2) Satan committed his sin in heaven and was cast out. Therefore, God would have had to destroy heaven, not earth, to punish the stain of Satan's sin.
3) Satan can/could still freely move about after he was cast out. Satan does not get bound to the pit until the Second Advent.
Job 1:7 The LORD said to Satan, "From where do you come?" Then Satan answered the LORD and said, "From roaming about on the earth and walking around on it."
From this scripture we can glean A) Satan has freedom and is already evil B) There are other places Satan can go besides heaven or earth because if there were only two places, then God would not have had to ask Satan where he was. If he wasn't in heaven (presumably where this conversation is taking place), then he would have had to been on earth if that was the only other place he could go. C) If Daniel Jackson can just get the ZPM module so he can have enough energy to power the StarGate, he can get back to the 10000 year old Lost City of Atlantis, find Merlin, and defeat the Ori. No wait a minute. Forget about C, it doesn't actually say that at all.
4) Absolutely nothing but evil can come from this doctrine. This doctrine denies the 6 day creation and provides an avenue for other apostasies to creep in, like re-incarnation.
5) Here is the Strong's on tohu and bohu:
tohu (1062c); from an unused word; formlessness, confusion, unreality, emptiness: - chaos (1), confusion (1), desolation (1), emptiness (1), empty space (1), formless (2), futile (2), futile things (1), meaningless (2), meaningless arguments (1), nothing (2), waste (3), waste place (2).
bohu (96a); from an unused word; emptiness: - emptiness (1), void (2).
Thems a whole lot of possibilities, but you guys cite with absolute certainty that you know how they should have been translated. I am so not on board with this. You are using a crow bar and some Penzoil to put your doctrine into the scriptures. If I wanted to do that, I could have stayed Catholic... or Protestant.
6) You won't tell me who and when this doctrine was created, which actually tells me exactly who created, and thank God I have found what seems to be the only congregation in North America who has been able to get over that guy. He must have been one incredibly powerful operator.
Now, it's been a lot of fun dissecting this doctrine and I have learned a bit on the way. However, I am not going to spend anymore calories or O2 on this endeavor. Take care and God Bless,
Chris
Some folks have asked over the years "Where did this idea of a previous age come from?" Some folks point to Peter as he is the only one in scripture that really talks directly about it....as you have pointed out. But....Moses, Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Jesus, Matthew, Luke, John and Paul all allude to a previous social order prior to Adam.
In [2 Peter 3:6-7] we have a definite statement that there was a social world before Adam, which is called, "the world that then was." The Greek word for world is "Cosmos", meaning social system. This social order had to be before this one we now know, or it could not be called "the social order that then was." That it was one which existed before our social order since Adam, is clear from the next statement about "the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW." The two statements, "the world THAT THEN WAS" and "the heavens and the earth, WHICH ARE NOW" prove there were two separate social systems on Earth. One was BEFORE the one WHICH IS NOW, and the other, AFTER the one THAT THEN WAS. If it can be definitely proved that "THE WORLD THAT THEN WAS" refers to a social order on Earth before the present heavens and the Earth WHICH ARE NOW, then it would be forever settled that there were inhabitants before Adam.
1.Men are never spoken of in Scripture as "spirits". Man has spirit, but he is not "a spirit", for a spirit hath not "flesh and bones". In this life man has "flesh and blood", a "natural" (or physical) body. At death this spirit "returns to God who gave it" (Ps.31:5, Eccl 12:7, Lk.23:46, Acts 7:59). In resurrection "God giveth it a body as it hath pleased Him" (1 Cor.15:38). This is no longer a "natural (or physical) body," but a "spiritual body" (1 Cor. 15:44).
He goes on about the angels that left their habitation....
6.Returning to 1Pet.3:19, the expression "the spirits in prison" cannot be understood apart from the whole context. The passage commences with the word "For" (v.17), and is introduced as the reason why "it is better, if the will of God should (so) will, to suffer for well-doing than for evil-doing. FOR (v.18) Christ also suffered for sins once (Gr.hapax)-a Just One for unjust ones-in order that He might bring us to God, having been put to death indeed as to {His} spirit." This can refer only to His spiritual resurrection body (1Cori 15:45). In death His body was put in the grave (or sepulchre,i.e. Hades), Acts 2:31; but not until His spirit was reunited to the body in resurrection could He go elsewhere. And then He went not to "Gehenna", or back to Hades, but to Tartarus (2 Pet.2:4) where "the angels who sinned" had been "delivered into chains". To these He proclaimed His victory.
This writer, E.W. Bullinger, believes the "prison" Christ went to was to that of the fallen angels. Apparently not to offer salvation (as I thought to those of Noah's time) but to proclaim victory.
Your friend......Ping
Both [1 Peter 3:19] and [2 Peter 2:4] are somewhat confusing when trying to reconcile the timing of these visits. Both verses speak of an imprisonment....so to speak, but use different words. 1 Peter uses the Greek word (5438. phulake (foo-lak-ay')a guarding or (concretely, guard), the act, the person; figuratively, the place, the condition, or (specially), the time (as a division of day or night), literally or figuratively.) 2 Peter uses the Greek word (5020. tartaroo (tar-tar-o'-o)from Tartaros (the deepest abyss of Hades); to incarcerate in eternal torment)
So....these are obviously different places. [Jude 6] And the angels which kept not their first estate, but left their own habitation, he hath reserved in everlasting chains under darkness unto the judgment of the great day. must therefore be the same as [1 Peter 3:19] since it just refers to a prison....not necessarily Tartarus. The thing that confuses many folks about Tartarus in [2 Peter] is that it is translated Hell in many versions....and that conjures up a whole new thought.
So.....[1 Peter and Jude 6] are speaking of "Fallen Angels", the fathers of the Nephilim....with the daughters of men? And....[2 Peter 2:4] For if God spared not the angels that sinned, but cast them down to hell, and delivered them into chains of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment....these are the Angels who rebelled with Lucifer during the first age?
I Jn 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.Here is an article I read nearly forty years ago. It changed my attitude toward Bible study. I believe that in order to get good with a sword, you must practice, so, we pick up the Sword of the Spirit, and swing it around. I’ll watch your moves and show you a few of mine. Careful, lest we cut ourselves, for the blade is sharp.
I don't know. My head feels like it's full of oatmeal. I read it one way and it sounds like the fallen angels during Noah's time and then later it sounds like it was during the "overthrow".
And Peter actually said it was difficult for some to understand Paul - ha.
I'll let it rest for a time and then maybe it will become clearer to me. Thank you for taking time with this.
Your friend......Ping
Paul, in 1Cori.10: is teaching about the Exodus and in vs.6 tells us that, "Now these things were our examples, to the intent we should not lust after evil things, as they also lusted.
To me, the Book of Exodus is an example, with strong parallels of end times, on what we should do to reach the "promised land". In Ex.34:23 God tells us that, "Thrice in the year shall all your men children appear before The Lord God, the God of Israel. Again, in vs. 24. He says, ".....when thou shalt go up to appear before the Lord thy God thrice in the year.
On these feast days they read the Word of God to all the people. Ex.34:18 and 22 tells us that two of those feast days God wants us to keep are The feast of unleavened bread, Passover, and the Feast of weeks, Feast of Tabernacles.
Where is the third feast? In vs. 22 are the "firstfruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the year's end", the same event or separate ones? If I go on the premise that they are the same event then where is the 3rd feast day? If they are separate events, could the time of "ingathering at year's end" be the time that would become Pentecost?
As Exodus is our "example" these must be crucial dates for us to observe. At Passover, Christ was crucified, at Pentecost, The Holy Spirit was sent as our Comforter and the Feast of Tabernacles was the time of Jesus' birth - the firstfruit, our date of around September 29.
My feeling is that these dates will have much to do with the end of days, whenever that will be. We aren't to know the day but we are to know the season and we are to be a watchman. We are 9 days from Pentecost now and I truly don't know what is expected of one on that day, or the other two feast days, except to keep the days Holy, as we do the Sabbath.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
...Ping
Sorry to take so long....another hectic day.
[Leviticus 23] is the chapter explaining the Feast Days the best. The seven annual Sabbaths are the "First" and "Last" Day of Unleavened Bread (verses 6-8); "Pentecost" (verse 21) counted 50 days from the day after the first Sabbath of unleavened; The "First" day of Trumpets (verses 24-25); Ten days later the "Day of Atonement" (verse 32); And the "First" and "Last" (verse 39) days of Tabernacles.
The three times a year that males were required to present themselves to the Lord were Passover (Pesach), Pentecost (Shavuot) and Tabernacles (Sukkot). [Exodus 34:18-24] 18 The feast of unleavened bread shalt thou keep. Seven days thou shalt eat unleavened bread, as I commanded thee, at the time appointed in the month Abib, for in the month Abib thou camest out from Egypt. 19 All that openeth the womb is Mine; and of all thy cattle thou shalt sanctify the males, the firstlings of ox and sheep. 20 And the firstling of an ass thou shalt redeem with a lamb; and if thou wilt not redeem it, then thou shalt break its neck. All the first-born of thy sons thou shalt redeem. And none shall appear before Me empty. 21 Six days thou shalt work, but on the seventh day thou shalt rest; in plowing time and in harvest thou shalt rest. 22 And thou shalt observe the feast of weeks, even of the first-fruits of wheat harvest, and the feast of ingathering at the turn of the year. 23 Three times in the year shall all thy males appear before the Lord GOD, the God of Israel.
What is confusing sometimes to many is that the "First Fruits" is not Pentecost.....many think it is. First Fruits [Leviticus 23:9-14] is the offering of the barley harvest and it is done on the day after the First Sabbath of Unleavened Bread. The Feast of Weeks (Pentecost) [Leviticus 23:15-21] is the offering of the wheat harvest.....50 days later.
We are 9 days from Pentecost now and I truly don't know what is expected of one on that day, or the other two feast days, except to keep the days Holy, as we do the Sabbath.
There are two schools of thought on the fifty day count of the Omer from Passover to Pentecost. Many folks will begin their count on the Sunday after the first weekly Sabbath of Unleavened Bread. This is how the Sadducee's counted it but the Pharisee's always counted from the First Day after the First Sabbath (not first weekly Sabbath) after Unleavened Bread. Consequently, Pentecost will then always fall on Sivan 6....which will this year be a Wednesday.....the 23rd of May. Counting it this way keeps God's Festivals and Sabbaths rotating on a Lunar schedule....not the weekly schedule of a Sunday Pentecost.
I've always been partial to the Pharisee's way of counting because of what our Lord said: [Matthew 23:1-3] Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, Saying The scribe's and the Pharisee's sit in Moses' seat. All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, that observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not. They were hypocrites....but they taught the correct word of God, whereas the Sadducee's did not even believe in the resurrection [Matthew 22:23].
If you do know what to do on the Feast Days of the Lord....and you are observing them without the benefit of convocation.....do what the Spirit guides you to do.
This should say.....If you do "NOT" know what to do..........
Thank you for this information. I have company arriving today so I won't have time to study it until tonight. One question I have is, God's Festivals and Sabbaths rotating on a Lunar schedule.....
My understanding is that God wants us to be on a Solar schedule - we are children of the light. Prophecies given in months are lunar, of the dark and are for children of the dark - Satan.
Months - Rev. 9:10 .......and their power was to hurt men five months. (I would like to discuss this 5 months with you sometime too)
Rev. 11:2...given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
Days - as in the days of Daniel, Feast Days, the Day of the Lord, etc. Wouldn't the same hold true with the schedule for God's feasts? Shouldn't they be figured on a Solar calender? Saying that, I do understand that placing it on a Sunday isn't what is expected either.
Thank you again for replying with this information. I always know who to go to with Biblical questions.
Your friend.......Ping
This is a PS to my earlier post. I went to my calendar and this coming Wed. is the 50th day from Passover - as you said, the true Pentecost. Did this happen to fall on this date with the Lunar or Solar or did they coincide this year?
Your friend....Ping
Pentecost in that year was on a Friday! Don't tell the Romans.....LOL.....or the Protestants......either.
[Psalm 81:3-4] Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the God of Jacob.
[Exodus 12:2;12:3;12:6;12:18]
[Leviticus 23:5;23:6;23:24;23:27;23:32;23:34;23:39;23:41]
Our company cancelled until tomorrow morning so I'm going over the information you sent. Thank you again.
So, it looks like Passover, Pentecost and the Tabernacles are the 3 feast days God wants us to keep. I'll have to look into the Tabernacles as I don't know what it is all about. Passover I have been studying, while going through Exodus and Pentecost I believe I understand. I'm very new at this Hebrew way of worship. I don't remember any of this being discussed in the Protestant church I attended. Of course, they may have, I just never paid much attention (she said as her head lowers in shame).
It sounds as if you have been very busy but I hope you find time to comment on the "souls" issue. You have given scripture about the dead, asleep, etc. but I still don't know your thoughts on what happens. I'm very interested.
Your friend.......Ping
I also believe that 1:18 has a deeper meaning than just light/dark. ...and to divide the light from the darkness:.... In 1:2 He told us that darkness was upon the face of the deep, then in 1:3..there was light. Jesus is the light and He was there in the beginning so is the darkness symbolic of Satan? Perhaps not just symbolic but, as I believe, actually there - "....I will cast thee to the ground, I will lay thee before kings, that they may behold thee." (Ez.28:17 From the 1st age?)
John 1:5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (John speaking of the beginning).
John 8:12 Then spake Jesus again unto them, saying, "I am the light of the world..."
Acts 26:18 To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God.....
So, even though Feast days can be or are on a monthly cycle, considering the above, would it hold true that the prophecies given about Satan would be of the night, Lunar, while prophecies of Christ are Solar - days. Does this make sense to you?
......Ping
I don't know...I've never thought about it that way. "God is light"[1 John 1:5] And this is the message that we have heard from Him, and announce to you, that God is light, and darkness in Him is not at all.
It goes without saying that Satan would be the opposite of light.....but, be careful. [2 Corinthians 11:13-14] For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
I do not believe in the immortality of the soul. I believe that the Hebrew word "Nephesh" (translated soul) means simply an air breathing animal. When that animal dies....the soul dies.
[Genesis 1:21] And God created great whales, and every living creature that moveth, which the waters brought forth abundantly, after their kind, and every winged fowl after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
The word highlighted is #5315. nephesh (neh'-fesh)properly, a breathing creature, i.e. animal of (abstractly) vitality; used very widely in a literal.
[Genesis 2:7] And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
Same word describing animals and men.....soul (Nephesh)! Souls die!
Transformed, as used above, can also be disguised. He will be disguised as Christ, coming to deceive. I wonder how many know he will be the "instead of Christ"? How many are prepared for the deception? Christ told us he would be so good at it that (Mk.13:20 & 22)"even the elect could be seduced so He shortened the days".
Rev.8:11 And the name of the star is called Wormwood. He'll be disguised as the Morning Star, Christ - an angel of light.
Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
Rev. 3:10.Because thou hast kept the word of My patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Are we ready for that?
Your friend.......Ping
Same word describing animals and men.....soul (Nephesh)! Souls die!
I'm not familiar with Greek or Hebrew and I know that you are but I'm using my Companion Bible (KJV with appendixes by E.W. Bullinger) that are referring to some of what we are discussing. All the information comes from him.
The word Nephesh occurs 754 times in the Hebrew OT....With these two exceptions, the English word "soul" always represents the Hebrew nephesh, nephesh is not always translated "soul". (Job30:15, Isa.57:16)
Bullinger lists each occurrence of nephesh and the lexical usage but leaves the reader to form his own judgment as to how far the classification is correct. He also states that "the usage of the word nephesh by the Holy Spirit in the Word of God is the only guide to the true understanding of it".
It will be seen that the word "soul" in its theological sense, does not cover all the ground, or properly represent the Heb. word nephesh. The English word "soul" is from the Latin solus = alone or sole, because the maintenance of man as a living organism, and all that affects his health and well being, is the one sole, or main thing, in common with every living thing which the Lord God has made. The correct Latin word for the theological term "soul" (or nephesh) is anima; and this is from the Greek anemos = air or breath, because it is this which keeps the whole in life and in being.
(The usage of the corresponding NT word, psuche, will be presented in a later appendix)
There are 12 classifications of nephesh: 1.Lower animals, 2.Lower animals and man (in 7 passages), 3.Man, as an individual person (53 passages, rendered 6 different ways), 4.Man, as exercising certain powers or performing certain acts. 5.Man as possessing animal appetites and desires (22 passages) 6.Man, as exercising mental faculties and feelings, passions. 7.Man as being cut off by God and as being slain or killed by man. 8.Man as being mortal, subject to death, from which it can be saved and delivered and life prolonged. 9.Man, as actually dead 10.Nephesh, in 13 passages, all rendered "soul", is spoken of as going to a place described by four different words - Sheol, grave, hell, shachath (a pit for wild beasts), dumah (silence)
The one that we are most interested in is #8, Man as mortal, subject to death. Bullinger gives many scripture references where it is used in this manner. His first two are Gen.9:5 as "life, lives" and Gen.12:13 as "soul". There are numerous others and I would be glad to list them if you are interested.
My point here is that there is a big difference in that word, nephesh. Not all mean an animal, although the word is the same for an animal and a human.
Bullinger also teaches about the Ruach, Spirit, including the "invisible part of man - given by God at man's formation at birth, and returning to God at his death."
As you said, in the NT the word psuche is the only word translated "soul". Bullinger gives the different uses of that word. He states that "it is useless to go to heathen authors. The Greek philosophers were at variance among themselves. So, we must, therefore, let scripture be its own interpreter. Psyche exactly corresponds to the Hebrew Nephesh.
1.Psuche, used of the lower animals twice (Rev.8:9, 16:3)
2.Psuche, used of the life of man as an individual, as a ship going down with every soul on board.
3.Psuche, used of the life of man, which can be lost, destroyed, saved, laid down etc. - occurs 58 times. As in Matt.2:20, 6:25, 10:39, 16:25.......
4.Psuche, used to emphasize the pronoun, as we use "self" - my soul, myself.
5.Psuche, used with intensive force, to express all the powers of one's being.
Bullinger also teaches about "Dead and The Dead". The word "nekros" (noun and adjective) has different meanings, according as it is used in different connections:
1.With the article (hoi nekroi) it denotes dead bodies, or corpses, carcasses in the grave, apart from the personality they once had.
2.Without the article (nekroi) it denotes the persons who were once alive, but who are now alive no longer: i.e. dead persons as distinct from dead bodies.
3.With a Preposition, but without the Article, which may be latent in the Preposition (ek nekron), it denotes out from among dead people. ( Mk.9:9-10, Lk16:30-31, Jhn20:9, Acts10:41.Rom.6:13,10:7-9, 11:15, 1Cor 15:12-20, Heb.11:19).
4.With a Preposition, and with the article; e.g. ek ton nekron, it denotes emphatically out from among the dead bodies, or corpses. (Eph.5:14, Col.1:18, 2:12)
5.The bearing of this on 1Pet.4:6 will be better seen if we note that we have nekroi, meaning people who were then dead, but who had the gospel preached to them while they were alive; and this is confirmed by the Gr.Particle, men. The verse reads thus: "for to this end to those who are dead was the Gospel preached, that though they might be judged in the flesh according to the men, yet they might live according to God, as regards spirit."
It seems to me that even though the same word describes animals and men it means much more than that.
Your friend........Ping
The word in Job is [Ndiybah] and the word in Isaiah is [Nshamah]. These were incorrectly translated as "soul" by the KJV translators. [#5082 "Ndiybah" feminine of 'nadiyb' ; properly, nobility, i.e. reputation:--soul.] [#5397 "Nshamah"from 'nasham'; a puff, i.e. wind, angry or vital breath, divine inspiration, intellect. or (concretely) an animal:--blast, (that) breath(-eth), inspiration, soul, spirit]
Again, all of this stems from the fact that the KJV translators were just a few years out of Catholicism, and the fact that the soul was not eternal did not register. All ancient pagan religions taught the immortality of the soul and the Romans twisted their version of Christianity to fit this profile.....and the Protestants dutifully tagged along.
Here is what we know from reading the scriptures in both the Old and New Testaments. Man dies exactly the same as beasts do. They are both living, air breathing souls [Ecclesiastes 3:19-20]. [Job 14:1-2] Man that is born of a woman is of few days and full of trouble. He cometh forth like a flower, and is cut down: he fleeth also as a shadow, and continueth not. [Job 14:10-14] But man dieth, and wasteth away: yea, man giveth up the ghost, and where is he? As the waters fail from the sea, and the flood decayeth and drieth up. So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, that thou wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest appoint me a set time, and remember me. If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come.
[1 Corinthians 15:50-52] Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed. In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[Psalm 116:15] Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.
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