Why Does the Catholic Church Ordain Only Men to the Priesthood? Part Three[Cath/Orth/Angl Caucus]

Catholic Exchange.com ^ | 02-04-07 | Fr. Kyle Schnippel

[Salvation]

For your continuing discussion.

[Salvation]

I forgot this on the title. Could you please add it.

[Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

[Salvation]

Why Does the Catholic Church Ordain Only Men to the Priesthood? Part One [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

Why Does the Catholic Church Ordain Only Men to the Priesthood? Part Two [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

Why Does the Catholic Church Ordain Only Men to the Priesthood? Part Three [Catholic/Orthodox Caucus]

[Alex Murphy]

Michael Novak, writing in the Journal First Things, comments on the meeting between Pope John Paul II and Dr. George Carey, the Archbishop of Canterbury, in May 1992. In the interim period between Inter Insigniores and this meeting, the Anglican Communion had progressed on its movement towards the acceptance of women into the sacramental priesthood. In response, he noted an unnamed Vatican official as saying that "the Catholic Church, for fundamental theological reasons, does not believe it has a right to authorize such ordination."

Right up front, the article makes IMO significant comments re the Anglican church, yet they've been excluded from the discussion by virtue of the thread being a Catholic/Orthodox caucus. Why is that?

[Religion Moderator]

As with the other thread, if an Anglican speaks up and wishes to rebut the article - then Salvation would have the option of making it a three-way caucus or opening the thread.

Are you Anglican, Alex Murphy?

[Salvation]

Anglicans can weigh in -- no problem with me. Three way thread would be fine.

[Alex Murphy]

Are you Anglican, Alex Murphy?

Not I am not - and nor was this question raised the last time Salvation posted a Catholic/Anglican article and caucus-ed the Anglicans out of it. Whether I'm Anglican or not does nothing to address this caucus thread violating the caucus rules themselves. This thread should either include the Anglicans, or be made an open thread.

But if it's an Anglican you want, let's get the head of the Anglican ping list in on this thread, have him ping the rest of the Anglicans, and see what they think. Huber, would you do me the honor of pinging your list?

[Salvation]

Thank you for adding that.

[Salvation]

**Advances in theological understanding, specifically with respect to John Paul's groundbreaking approach in The Theology of the Body have yet to be adequately applied to the priesthood. **

But it is so applicable -- living a chaste and holy life as a priest, just as couples are expected to live a holy and dedicated life.

For your information:

Christopher West's Theology of the Body Webiste

Books, tapes, CDs, DVDs, etc.

From book by the same name by Pope John Paul II.

[Huber]

Thanks to Alex Murphy and Salvation for the ping.

Traditional Anglican ping, continued in memory of its founder Arlin Adams.

FReepmail Huber if you want on or off this moderately high-volume ping list (typically 3-9 pings/day).
This list is pinged by Huber.

Resource for Traditional Anglicans: http://trad-anglican.faithweb.com
Humor: The Anglican Blue

Speak the truth in love. Eph 4:15
[The article mentions the 1992 meeting between ABC Carey and Pope JPII and Anglican vs Catholic divergence on ordination of women. The folks on the thread have asked if we might be kind enough to provide an Anglican perspective on this. --Huber]

[AnAmericanMother]

The Anglican polity itself is divided on this issue, and has been for some time.

The ordination of women was the first big issue to split the American Episcopal Church (revision of the prayer book and refusal to convict a couple of bishops of heresy were the other main ones). It has also created problems in England.

The traditional/orthodox view in the Anglican church is identical to the Catholic view, and for the same reasons. The Anglican church traditionally has held itself to be in the Apostolic Succession and part of the Catholic Church. Although Catholics disagreed (see Apostolicae Curae, this remains the orthodox position.

[Huber]

Here is the official position of the Anglican Catholic Church from its website:

Commentary on the ACC by The Most Reverend M. Dean Stephens, Archbishop Ordinary of the Diocese of New Orleans and Metropolitan of the Anglican Catholic Church. This article is reprinted from the February, 1998 edition of The Trinitarian, the newspaper of the Anglican Catholic Church.

Let me review briefly with you what the Anglican Catholic Church believes.

We believe in the One, Holy, Triune God, Father, Son and Holy Spirit. We believe that there is no other name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved, and that most holy name is Jesus, Lord of heaven and earth. We believe that only through Him is the full revelation of God given to man and that we have the awesome responsibility to preach the Good News of salvation to all nations and tongues.

We believe that the Holy Scriptures of the Old and New Testaments are the authentic record of God's revelation to man and is a revelation valid for all men and all time. In the Bible we have God's revelation of Himself, His saving activity, and moral demands. We believe that all scripture is given by inspiration of God and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works [II Tim. 3:16].

We believe the Catholic Faith as set forth in the three recognized Creeds of Christendom, namely the Apostles' Creed, the Nicene Creed and that known as the Creed of St. Athanasius. We receive and believe them in the sense they have had always in the Catholic Church.

We believe in the holy Tradition of the Church as set forth by the ancient catholic bishops and doctors, and especially as defined by the Seven Ecumenical Councils of the undivided Church.

We hold dear the seven Sacraments of Grace, namely, the Sacraments of Baptism, Confirmation, and the Holy Eucharist, Holy Matrimony, Holy Orders, Penance, and Unction of the Sick. We believe them to be objective signs of Christ's continued presence and saving activity among us. We believe in the holy sacrifice of the Mass and that the body and blood of Christ is truly and really present in the Holy Eucharist.

We believe in God's gift of the apostolic ministry to His Church, asserting the necessity of a bishop in apostolic succession (or a priest ordained by such) as the celebrant of the Eucharist.

Furthermore, we hold that the Holy Orders of Bishops, Priests and Deacons consist exclusively of men in accordance with Christ's Will and institution.

We believe in the sanctity of human life, that life begins at the moment of conception and that the willful taking of that life in the womb by abortion to be a grave sin [Title XV, Canon I, 1.01 of the Canons of the Anglican Catholic Church].

We believe in the family, in the God-given sacramental bond in marriage between one man and one woman. We profess that sexual activity is to be practiced only within the bonds of Holy Matrimony.

We believe that man is very far gone from original righteousness, is in rebellion against God's authority and is liable to His righteous judgment. We believe that all people, individually and collectively, are responsible to their Creator for their acts, motives, thoughts and words, since we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ.

We believe it is the duty of the Church and her members to bear witness to Christian Morality, to follow it in their lives, and to reject the false standards of the world.

Lastly, the Anglican Catholic Church acknowledges that rule of faith laid down by St. Vincent of Lerins: Let us hold that which has been believed everywhere, always and by all, for that is truly and properly Catholic.

The Bishops of this Church are committed to seeing that the Faith of Christ is kept entire as it was given to this Church. Any assertion to the contrary has no basis in fact. We call upon all the communicants of this church to believe without reservation that deposit of Faith that has been given to the Anglican Catholic Church and to Earnestly contend for the faith once delivered to the saints [Jude 3]

[D-fendr]

A tad off topic, but I notice that women can do pretty much the same thing in the RC that they can in nonRC.

The only exception I can think of is give a lecture/study on Sunday during main services. Other than that there's nothing I can think of that women can do in other Churches that they can't in RC.

[Salvation]

Women cannot be deacons.

Women cannot perform the Sacraments, including the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass which includes the Holy Eucharist.

Women cannot be bishops.

Nor can I go to a woman to receive the Sacrment of Reconciliation, Baptism, Confirmation, Annointing of the Sick, Holy Orders or Matrimony.

And you are right Catholic women are not allowed to give a homily -- only the ordained deacon or priest.

[D-fendr]

Yes, but... :)

If a church does not have sacraments nor apostolic succession, then what on your list can they do in this church that they cannot in the RC? For example, they can't present the consecrated Host in either.

Other than titles, little remains on the list.

[AnalogReigns]

I'm a Presbyterian-becoming-an-Anglican, so I hope you don't mind if I pipe in.

I wholly agree with the article--and other than C. S. Lewis's (old) essay "Preistesses in the Church"(which really is superb) it's an aspect of the "women's issue" I've never seen addressed by conservative Protestants. Even in classical Protestant circles (though of course more in more liturgical churches) the mediator-function of a minister is acknowleged, if sometimes begrudgingly (from a priesthood-of -all-believers perspective). Ancient Israel was referred to as a "kingdom of priests" and yet they had formal priests, too, so I see no reason why--while affirming no two classes of people (those with a calling and those without...ALL have a calling, to do what God wants you to do)--the go-between nature of clergy cannot be recognized--and why a woman should not be in such a position over the whole Church (in St. Paul's words "I do not permit a woman to teach or have authority over a man" (I Tim. 2:12))

Naturally, coming from the Presbyterian/evangelical Anglican perspective, I'll put scripture first, over reason (found in this article) and tradition, though, being more Anglican, I'll not neglect as 2nd and 3rd, reasonable and traditional arguments as well.

You'd be surprised by the number of thoughtful conservative evangelical Reformed theological types (I'm a seminarian in a conservative Presbyterian school) who firmly believe in male leadership in the Church. I'd say among the under 35 crowd, it is largely not even a major issue--so deep is the conviction on it. Funny how solid reason, true tradition, and scriptural exegesis can end in the same place, isn't it my Roman Catholic brethren?

[AnalogReigns]

A church without sacraments by definition is not a church...

Now if you mean by "sacraments" exactly what Rome defines them as...well, that's narrowed down the parameters quite a bit, eh?

[AnalogReigns]

Very interesting. I know very little about Anglo-Catholicism...but as an evangelical I find little (though I do find some...) I can disagree with.

[Huber]

At one point during our search for a church home after leaving (what used to be called) ECUSA we spent some time with a superb PCA church. The church included several faculty members and recent graduates of the Reformed Theological Seminary, and was wholly committed to a high caliber of instruction. With this instruction came absolute clarity on the separate roles of men and women in the church. While we eventually realized that we could never in good faith adopt reformed theology, we have always been grateful for the excellent instruction we received while there.

[Huber]

Not surprisingly, the ACC attracts a lot of conservatives... ;-)