Catholic and Protestant Bibles: What is the Difference?

Catholic Exchange.com ^ | 02-06-07 | Mary Harwell Sayler

[Quix]

TRUE.

[Quix]

AND LIKEWISE YOU, DEAR SISTER IN CHRIST.

You are ALWAYS welcome for whatever crumbs of value I can offer.

[Quix]

You are ALWAYS welcome for whatever crumbs of value I can offer.

ALWAYS OF HIM AND BY HIS GRACE, OF COURSE.

[Forest Keeper]

But I think AT THE HEART LEVEL, THE ESSENTIALS ARE STILL THE ESSENTIALS. ...... IN EACH INDIVIDUAL'S MOMENT BY MOMENT CASE . . . DID THEY DEMONSTRATE WHOLLY LOVING ME; LOVING OTHERS AS SELF; DOING UNTO OTHERS; DID THEY FORGIVE AS THEY SOUGHT TO BE FORGIVEN; DID THEY DO AS THEY SAID.

Amen. I wholly agree. While the cultural and other changes you mention are certainly noteworthy, the most important teachings of scripture are either timeless or they are not. I agree with you that they are.

[kawaii]

i think id' be at home in other langauge liturgies at this point.

i was pretty confused when we started going to a slavonic liturgy as the oca parish we used to attend used a shorter liturgy so some things were things i'd never really heard regurally before.

on the other hand it goes along with by dual language slavonic english service book much better than the oca liturgy did...

[wmfights]

...there's no reason to believe that every doctrine must EXPLICITLY be in the Bible.

If this is where you believe you should be I'm sure you agree with all those things that "Tradition" has brought you. I will pray that you come to understand what it is to be BORN AGAIN.

Scripture is a guide, a "fact checker" if you will, never to be violated, but not the source of all dogma/doctrine for all time.

When you decide you can have "other things" than what is in Scripture you end up with men determining if and when you are saved, by means of their doctrines and dogmas. Almost all disagreement with the RC and EO sects can be laid at the feet of "Tradition".

"The WRITTEN word is the ONLY source of doctrine" (emphasis added) exist no where in Scripture. Without such, there exists no proof for sola scriptura.

You really don't understand what Sola Scriptura is, or just insist on not understanding it. It is not a complicated idea. Most simply explained, Sola Scriptura means all doctrines must be based on Scripture and consistant with Scripture.

[Quix]

thanks thanks.

imho.

THOSE ESSENTIALS SLICE THROUGH

ALL

RATIONALIZATIONS

ON ALL SIDES

OF ALL ISSUES

As we stand before FATHER.

[FourtySeven]

Most simply explained, Sola Scriptura means all doctrines must be based on Scripture and consistant with Scripture.

How is that different than saying, "The written word is the only source of doctrine"?

[Quix]

GOOD POINTS. imho.

[wmfights]

Thanks. :-)

[kawaii]

there are no orthodox doctrines which contradict Holy Scripture.

There are some which would appear to contract the poor translations, ommisions, and re-writes protestants oft call scripture.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

AMEN, Quix. Our very health and welfare depend on "our feeling good about ourselves" because we are His.

There is real joy and wholeness in God's love for His children. He created us for His pleasure, to glorify His name. And miraculously, He created that effort to increase the joy in our own lives.

Or else what is "good fruit" if not something over which we are to rejoice?

Westminster Shorter Catechism

Question 1

Q: What is the chief end of man?

A: Man's chief end is to glorify God, and to enjoy him forever.

1 Corinthians 10:31. Whether therefore ye eat, or drink, or whatsoever ye do, do all to the glory of God.

Romans 11:36. For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Psalm 73:24-26. Thou shalt guide me with thy counsel, and afterward receive me to glory. Whom have I in heaven but thee? and there is none upon earth that I desire beside thee. My flesh and my heart faileth: but God isthe strength of my heart, and my portion for ever.

John 17:22, 24. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one... Father, I will that they also, whom thou hast given me, be with me where I am; that they may behold my glory, which thou hast given me: for thou lovedst me before the foundation of the world."

[Alamo-Girl]

Not to make too fine a point of it, but the old black and white TVs worked by painting an electronic beam over yellow-blue (grey to me) phosphors. As the beam passed a point, the phosphor would light up according to the intensity of the beam (raster graphics.)

The intensity of the beam created the shades.

Nevertheless, bright phosphors adjacent to unlit phosphors made them appear black when they were actually yellow-blue (grey). That was my point.

Anyway, I do agree that life is black and white, good and evil, right and wrong, truth and lie.

But only God knows objective Truth - we cannot seek Truth through reason alone (much to the chagrin of the Greeks according to Paul) --- but rather must receive His revelations to us through Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, Scriptures and Creation. Spiritual knowledge is foolishness to the natural man.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

only God knows objective Truth - we cannot seek Truth through reason alone (much to the chagrin of the Greeks according to Paul) --- but rather must receive His revelations to us through Jesus Christ, the Holy Spirit, Scriptures and Creation. Spiritual knowledge is foolishness to the natural man.

Amen.

"But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ." -- 1 Corinthians 2:14-16

As Christians, you and I are His and "judgeth all things" because "we have the mind of Christ."

What riches.

[hosepipe]

[... God is not partial. He did not create us lustful and envious, cunning and deceitful. We develop into those personalities. ..]

"You MUST be Born Again"- Jesus..

Created the first time or the second..

[pgyanke]

Alamo-Girl,

I haven't reviewed all of your posts to this thread but what I took the time to read shows a keen mind. You and I have had interesting discussions before. I would add only this crumb to this feast of a thread:

Luke 9:49 "Master," said John, "we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we tried to stop him, because he is not one of us."
50 "Do not stop him," Jesus said, "for whoever is not against you is for you."

We Catholics believe ours is the One, Holy Apostolic Church which has been entrusted with the fullness of truth. However, no one who professes the name of Jesus is our enemy. Neither side of the debate should behave as if we were.

[Kolokotronis]

"I'm trying to figure what level of diversity of view is allowed in order to still be a good Orthodox. I'm confused because on the one hand, the seven Councils did not lay out tons and tons of dogma, but on the other hand, all Orthodox Churches believe essentially the same things, implying to me a lot more than a handful of basics. Since the RCs have papal infallibility, it would seem that they have much more in stone, INCLUDING things you (currently) agree with them about."

OK; all Orthodox believe the exact same things on matters of dogma and doctrine. In matters of Orthopraxis, which include certain disciplines and some minor variations in the way we pray the Divine Liturgy or other devotions there can be and are some differences. None of these differences in praxis say anything about what we believe and profess for our Orthodox Faith.

Part of the problem you may be having with this is your Western religious mindset which tends to be far more "categorical" and "dogmatic" than the Orthodox phronema. For example, in the East bishops have the power and discretion to employ "economia" which is a "pass on the rules" if the application of the rule is more damaging spiritually than the pass. But economia can only be applied with regard to discipline, never on matters of dogma. A bishop could not exercise economia to allow someone to deny the Real Presence, or the Trinity or to say that Mary is not the Theotokos. The same would go for certain disciplines. For example, a bishop could not tell someone its OK to never go to confession or communion or that its OK to sleep with your girlfriend before you are married.

I'll bet that's clear as mud, right?

[Mad Dawg]

From Paulist Press is it not? :)

Produced and marketed by the "Clem & Cletus" hallmark

[Kolokotronis]

"Produced and marketed by the "Clem & Cletus" hallmark"

Ha! I knew Monsignor Cletus had to be involved. Don't be fooled. He's no redneck, but rather a true Roman and descendant of a Patrician family! Next time you see him, notice the fine French cuffs and gold cufflinks on his shirt, a dead give away if his very name were not enough!

[ScubieNuc]

So what I'm really asking is, what is the statement of faith that everyone who is a member of the "invisible church" must believe? What doctrines are non-negotiable?

That is why you must search the Scriptures. I don't set up any "statements of faith" or say what doctrines are non-negotiable. God does through the Scriptures. The Scripture has some doctrines pretty clearly laid out, and often repeated.

John 3:15-16 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Acts 16:30-31 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

Rom. 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

The other doctrines are (I believe) meant to be harder to understand so that you seek God more and study the Bible more.

2Tim. 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

John 5:39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

The Holy Spirit is your guide to understanding.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

Rom. 8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.

I see in one of your responses that you believe the RC and OC over Protestant because they have hashed out these doctrines for you. Maybe, that's where you need to be right now. However, to just accept these traditions/doctrines without comparing them to Scripture/Word/Gospel is placing your faith into what others think, over the guidance of the Holy Spirit (which all believers have) and the Word.

2Tim. 4:2-4 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.

Notice where doctrine for the earliest Christians came from...the word, not tradition.

3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

How do you receive oral traditions? With itching ears. That's why the Apostles wrote the word down. (Acts 13:48-49)

4 And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Where is the truth found? In the word.

John 1:1,10-14 ¶ In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:

Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

¶ And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Sincerely,
Scubie