Posted on 02/27/2007 12:32:29 PM PST by Alex Murphy
Back in the day when the burgers were grilled, you'd put those nasty reconstituted onions on the regular burgers while they were being cooked. If someone wanted a burger w/o onions you'd pick it up on the spatula and blow the onions off.
I find that we are using a good bit of "fake meat" soy products. I suppose that fits the legal fasting rules, but I'm not so sure about the spirit.
Last week we had the Canon of St. Andrew Monday, Tuesday and Thursday, Pre-Sanctified on Wednesday, and Akathist to the Theotokos on Friday (I don't count usual Saturday Vespers).
My wife and I took turns attending due to sick child. The services have been a blessing, still I will confess that I skipped the Triumph of Orthodoxy Vespers on Sunday.
Back on fasting - last night I was listening to Fr Pat Reardon on Ancient Faith Radio. He said Adam and Eve broke the fasting rules.
We still had flat grills when I started but the onions didn't go on during the cooking anymore (probably as a result of YOU and your blow burgers;) ). Unless we were making our own lunch of course (real onions obviously, not the recons was there ever a more vile invention than recons) it's amazing how much good food we actually could make at McDs, it just never got sold to customers. My favorite was grabbing a BBQ sauce thing from the mcnuggets, use that instead of special sauce for a bigmac and swap to the real onions.
It's traditional in the Oriental Churches (Orthodox & Eastern Catholic), to abstain from eating all meat, oil, wine and animal products (eggs, milk, cheese etc.). Freeper Tax Chick, who loves lentil meatloaf and pumpkin chile, 'fasts' without trying ;-) For the rest of us, it's a daily struggle.
Some lenten reflections from a Maronite priest.
Things to avoid when you fast
& words from the Fathers of the desert
1- Do not fast to make others see you: “When you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites. They neglect their appearance, so that they may appear to others to be fasting. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you may not appear to be fasting, except to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees what is hidden will repay you.” (Matthew 6:16-18). Fasting is always a means rather than a goal. If you fast just to let others praise you and treat you as a saint, I tell you, you are deceiving yourself and you may never enjoy the benefits of fasting.
2- Do not fast with pride: “Two people went up to the temple area to pray; one was a Pharisee and the other was a tax collector. The Pharisee took up his position and spoke this prayer to himself, 'O God, I thank you that I am not like the rest of humanity--greedy, dishonest, adulterous--or even like this tax collector. I fast twice a week, and I pay tithes on my whole income.” (Luke 18:12). Humility is the basis for every virtue.
3- Do not fast while holding grudges: “Is this the manner of fasting I wish, of keeping a day of penance: That a man bow his head like a reed, and lie in sackcloth and ashes? Do you call this a fast, a day acceptable to the LORD? This, rather, is the fasting that I wish: releasing those bound unjustly, untying the thongs of the yoke; Setting free the oppressed, breaking every yoke; Sharing your bread with the hungry, sheltering the oppressed and the homeless; Clothing the naked when you see them, and not turning your back on your own. Then your light shall break forth like the dawn, and your wound shall quickly be healed; Your vindication shall go before you, and the glory of the LORD shall be your rear guard. Then you shall call, and the LORD will answer, you shall cry for help, and he will say: Here I am! If you remove from your midst oppression, false accusation and malicious speech; If you bestow your bread on the hungry and satisfy the afflicted; Then light shall rise for you in the darkness, and the gloom shall become for you like midday; Then the LORD will guide you always and give you plenty even on the parched land. He will renew your strength, and you shall be like a watered garden, like a spring whose water never fails.” (Isaiah 58:5-11).
The Fathers of the desert sayings:
1- “Fasting humbles the body”. (Linginus).
2- “If a king wants to take the city of his enemies, he needs to lay siege to the city, no food or drink allowed. In this way, the people of the city become humiliated. Therefore, they surrender to the king.” When we fast, we lay siege to the body. We do not eat or drink. Then, we become humbled, weakened. Therefore, we surrender to Christ the King.
3- We learned from experience that the excess of food and rest is the cause of oppression.
4- Thoughts told a monk called Daniel: “Eat today and fast tomorrow.” The monk replied: “I won’t do this, but I want to fast today so that the will of God might be fulfilled tomorrow.”
5- “The fortress of a monk is fasting. His weapon is prayer. The one who has no fasting, has no fortress against his enemy. The one who has no prayer life, has no weapon to fight his enemies.”
6- “Fasting without prayer & humility is like an eagle with broken wings.”
7- Fasting causes victory. Fast with Christ so that you might be glorified with him by defeating the devil.”
You'll need to explain "pumpkin chile" to me....
Lenten Traditions: Potato pancakes from the Polish side, and "pasta leech" (angel hair with sauted anchovies, garlic & capers) from the Italyan side.
"Back on fasting - last night I was listening to Fr Pat Reardon on Ancient Faith Radio. He said Adam and Eve broke the fasting rules."
What an odd thing to say. I wonder what he meant. You know, I listen to AFR all the time but I have to say I find the sermons often troubling. There is a very, very Protestant gloss on some of them, so obvious that our priest cautioned the parishioners about listening to them. Just last Sunday after Liturgy I was speaking with a Lebanese fellow in the parish who had a fine theological education (M.Div) back in Lebanon. He commented on those sermons and expressed the fear that Protestantism was creeping into Orthodoxy here through the Antiochian Archdiocese.
BTW, don't worry about the fake meat...that stuff never fooled anyone's taste buds! :)
"You'll need to explain "pumpkin chile" to me...."
Last night I was told I can't have any 'cause its got meat in it!
EXCELLENT...as I would expect from Maronite! :)
About the creeping protestantism, I think you have a point. I beg your patience with us converts, however. Give us a few hundred years and I think we'll turn out fine.
OH MAN I didn't realize who invented fish o fly BTW Monk Norms have Fish special only on Fridays ONLY at their restaurant
"I beg your patience with us converts, however. Give us a few hundred years and I think we'll turn out fine."
I only worry about the converts in the pulpits! The overwhelming majority of the rest of you are just fine 5-10 years out and even if you're not, all your kids are belong to us! :)
I doubt the validity of this story. Doesn't jive with the history of McDonalds and Ray Kroc.
Y'all have pumpkin FReepmail!
I abstain from meat without pain, but too much lentil meatloaf, cauliflower curry, or That Bean Dish Again isn't in the spirit of fasting!
If I were legalistic, I wouldn't ever have to fast or abstain, according to the U.S. rules, because I'm a nursing mother. Or pregnant. Or both. However, that seems silly to me, just like the rule that children under 14 don't need to abstain from meat, since most of the world lives without meat most of the time, and under conditions that we would consider fasting!
As MT said, frankly the meat part isn't all that hard. By the end of Great Lent, aside from that wonderful lamb on Pascha, its actually a bit of a chore to get back on the meat thing. Its really the dairy and eggs that get most of us Orthodoxers. Legalism about fasting is a bad thing, for sure. But you know, those rules were made by some pretty strong, spiritually speaking, people and they are for our own advancement in theosis. Little old ladies and men have done it for centuries, monks and nuns for centuries and everyday of their religious lives.
But its something to work into and failure to follow a strict fast should never be a cause for discouragement. Developing a profound prayer life takes time too, and frankly is much harder "in the world". We should do the best we can and then try a bit more. Remember especially during Great lent what we often call God, Φιλανθροπε, Friend of Μankind. Either way, Pascha comes and we are all invited to the Feast of our Liberation!
This is now the tenth Lent that I have abstained from all beef, pork, and poultry every weekday. It is bearable only because I do not keep that fast on Sundays, reckoning those from sundown Saturday through sundown Sunday.
It can produce some awkward moments, such as at a plated luncheon or dinner meeting. Usually there are sufficient vegetables and potatoes to make a fairly satisfying meal, but there is a good "edge" to being less than satisfied and always a trifle hungry.
We should do the best we can and then try a bit more.
This is truly the 'crux' of our Lenten penance ... "try a bit more". Alex Murphy commented on a previous thread that we Orthodox and Catholic freepers were already missing Christ's message:
"Do not fast to make others see you: “When you fast, do not look gloomy like the hypocrites. They neglect their appearance, so that they may appear to others to be fasting. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, so that you may not appear to be fasting, except to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees what is hidden will repay you.” (Matthew 6:16-18)"
In reflecting on his post, I recognized that to a certain extent, we are all cupable of some form of boastfulness (be honest with yourselves :-).
Though our intentions be good - sharing information about fasting, and even some recipes - Lent is a time for personal sacrifice - a commitment made in prayerful reflection, with our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. It's important and even required to offer up fast and abstinence - how, when and on which days - is between us and Jesus. As Kolokotronis points out, each year, we should attempt to "try a bit more".
I have always thought that, when I have kids, I want them to learn to be "five percent more holy" than I am - and then to teach their own children to do likewise, and so on. That's all I ask for - five percent more holy than the prior generation.
Imagine the compounded effect over time.
Imagine the compounded effect over time.
Sadly, most of the time I see just the opposite, that each succesive generation is less faithful than the one that preceded it. The grandmother who comes to every daily liturgy of Holy Week, the daughters of whom only come to Easter Day, the grandsons of whom aren't even at Easter because that is the opening weekend of trout season.
Once in a great while there is a reversal and an increase in faithfulness as Alex so beautifully desires, but it is so rare that it deserves celebration as truly amazing grace.
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