Islam, Protestantism and Divergence from Catholicism

Faith Magazine ^ | January-February 2007 | Francis Lynch

[livius]

Huh? Maybe I'm being really obtuse tonight, but I don't think I'm following ya...

[Enosh]

Read it again in the morning. It'll make sense then.

[SoCal Pubbie]

Good going. Way to miss the whole point.

[Iscool]

Two points:

1. Kudos to the RM (and I have been repremanded by the RM at times).

2. Excellent post...

[livius]

Actually, prohibitions on figurative art rose well before that, and of course, depicting Mohammed would be figurative art. The various cultures overrun by Islam genearally continued to function semi-normally for about 100 years, and then finally Islam shut off all art, science and political life in those countries. Early Islamic buildings in Spain have figurative art - depictions of people, animals, etc. And then suddenly there is nothing, as Islam becomes more consolidated and the iconoclast leaders extend their influence.

Iconoclasm, btw, was a problem before that in certain Christian areas, particularly with the rise of monasticism in Egypt. People wanted a "purer" form of Christianity, and for some reason, that seems to mean doing away with art. However, it was after Islam (in the 8th and 9th centuries) that the Iconoclast movement really took off in the Christian church. It was finally defeated, but it was obviously the direct influence of Islam, which itself was becoming more and more anti-iconographic.

[livius]

I hope so...

[kosta50]

I do think that both represent a continuing heretical variation of both Jewish and Christian theology and praxis current at the time of their inception, however

I echo your sentiment about seeing a similar mindset but not any mutual influence of the two groups. Of course, they are not related in that sense.

However, as to being heretical, Judaism pretty much considers Christians as heretical polytheists of the worst kind.

[Iscool]

Frankly, most of us Protestants would prefer to see our Muslims friends come to Christ.

Absolutely...But if and when they don't, the Catholics can then have them...

[Salvation]

I know I am very late with this, but I would like to call other posters to this thread.

Catholic Discussion Ping!

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[livius]

Oh, I agree that there's no point in driving a wedge between any Christians. This, however, is a discussion of certain issues. Some people have been insulting, others have been seriously interested in discussing the differences. And I think it is important to work them out, because one of the things Islam is thriving on is the fact that far too many Christians are vastly ignorant of their faith.

Perhaps I misunderstood you, but I thought you were implying that the Catholic Church had "stolen" these things from the East. I was trying to explain to you that this was not the case, that the Byzantine elements of the churches in Rome were original, prior to the schism, and in fact that the Catholic and Orthodox churches have their shared holy places in Rome.

[SoCal Pubbie]

Huh, yes things were stolen from Constantinople, and taken to glorify churches in the West. That's a historical fact. Don't take my word for it, ask the Pope.

http://www.greeknewsonline.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=2328

But that's all in the past. No need to re fight the Reformation, or the Thirty Years' War. This article is garbage, and does nothing but inflame.

[Iscool]

I was raised in the Episcopal church, but have been attending a Catholic church for the last several months, and am (and have been for a year or so) slowly becoming Catholic.

What about your spirituality??? Were you filled with the Holy Spirit as an Episcopalian or will that come after being Catholic, or not at all???

[EternalHope]

This was a shameful article. It is an insulting hit piece, not something intended for rational discussion.

A similar article could be written claiming the Catholics of TODAY were embracing Islam. For instance, Catholics are against abortion and homosexuality, just as Islam is against these things. "Little" things like the POPE kissing the Koran could be added as frosting to the cake.

This would, of course, be a spurious attack that was in no way valid. I would expect the Catholics at FR to be outraged by the slander, and justifiably so.

However, in this case, the attack was launched by Catholics against Protestants. Why should the Protestants of FR be any less outraged than the Catholics would be?

I'm disgusted.

[GoLightly]

Actually, prohibitions on figurative art rose well before that, and of course, depicting Mohammed would be figurative art. The various cultures overrun by Islam genearally continued to function semi-normally for about 100 years, and then finally Islam shut off all art, science and political life in those countries. Early Islamic buildings in Spain have figurative art - depictions of people, animals, etc. And then suddenly there is nothing, as Islam becomes more consolidated and the iconoclast leaders extend their influence.

I'm well aware of that. The point of the article has to do with some of the common features of "heresies"...

Iconoclasm, btw, was a problem before that in certain Christian areas, particularly with the rise of monasticism in Egypt. People wanted a "purer" form of Christianity, and for some reason, that seems to mean doing away with art. However, it was after Islam (in the 8th and 9th centuries) that the Iconoclast movement really took off in the Christian church. It was finally defeated, but it was obviously the direct influence of Islam, which itself was becoming more and more anti-iconographic.

What is the extent & nature of early Jewish religious art? Lot of icons in Judaism?

[Religion Moderator]

Open threads like this one are a town square. Posters have leeway to make their case pro-[pick a confession] or anti-[pick a confession] on open threads as long as they stay within the Religion Forum guidelines.

Closed threads (devotionals, prayer threads and caucuses) are treated like church meetings. Challenges are not tolerated on closed threads.

[Salvation]

**Frankly, most of us Protestants would prefer to see our Muslims friends come to Christ.**

Likewise, the Catholic Church is having many converts from Islam.

Inside Iran: A Rising Chorus [Young Iranians leave Islam for Christianity]
Good news from Iraq: retired Iraqi general says record number of Muslims turning to Christ
Six million African Muslims leave Islam per year
There Is a Catholic Oasis in Dubai. And Another Has Sprung Up in Venice

Hong Kong diocese to baptize 2,400 catechumens
Mongolia's Catholics: 300 and Growing (Christianity introduced in 1992)
Huge Christian growth shocks China's leaders

[Quix]

Thanks thanks.

Me, too. On both counts!

[Quix]

That is, both points in #1! LOL.

And thanks for the kind comment in 2.

[Quix]

Not this Protesty.

[Quix]

I think we can call it a disgusting piece on it's own demerits.

That's sufficient, for me.

Let it stand as a disgusting example of that ilk of thing.

. . . .