Posted on 02/06/2007 2:19:51 PM PST by NYer
In keeping with guidelines posted by the Religion Moderator, we are posting this thread (and future ones) a series on the Early Church Fathers, as a Catholic/Orthodox Caucus. Protestants are welcome to post comments but restraint from attacks, would be appreciated. This thread is posted to inform, support and defend the historic orgins of the Catholic and Orthodox Churches.
Matt. 3:12; Luke 3:17 - John the Baptist said the Lord will burn the chaff with unquenchable fire. This unquenchable fire is the state of eternal separation from God, which the Church has called "hell" for 2,000 years. Some Protestant communities no longer acknowledge the reality of hell.
Matt. 25:41 - Jesus says, "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels."
Matt. 25:46 - Jesus says, "they will go away into eternal punishment" which is in reference to this eternal fire.
Mark 9:47-48 - Jesus refers to hell as where the worm does not die and the fire is not quenched. It lasts forever.
2 Thess. 1:6-9 - the angels will come with flaming fire and the disobedient will suffer punishment of eternal destruction. It is important to note that "destruction" does not mean "annihilation," as some Protestant denominations teach. It means eternal exclusion from the presence of God.
Jude 6-7 - the rebelling angels, and Sodom and Gomorrah, serve as an example by undergoing a punishment of eternal fire.
Rev. 14:11 - the worshipers of the beast suffer and the smoke of their torment goes up for ever and ever.
Rev. 20:10 - they're tormented in the lake of fire and brimstone day and night forever and ever.
Isaiah 33:14 - "Who of us can dwell in the everlasting fire?" This is a reference to hell which is forever.
Isaiah 66:24 - their worm shall not die and their fire shall not be quenched. We cannot fathom the pain of this eternal separation from God.
Jer. 15:14 - in my anger a fire is kindled which shall burn forever. Hell is the proper compliment to the eternal bliss of heaven.
Judith 16:17 - in the day of judgment the Lord will take vengeance on the wicked and they shall weep in pain forever. Hell is a place that sinners have prepared for themselves by rejecting God, who desires all people to be saved in His Son Jesus Christ. God sends no one to hell.
Bookmark for later. Time to feed the hounds.
By Fr. Joseph Pfeiffer
Thanks
Can we get a definition of what "in a state of mortal sin" means? One preferrably from the same Church Fathers?
"Can we get a definition of what "in a state of mortal sin" means? One preferrably from the same Church Fathers?"
I'd appreciate the appropriate cites also, NYer. I am unaware of any Eastern Fathers who used the term, but of course I could be wrong.
Let us pray and repent of our sins.
27. Sin, then, is any transgression in deed, or word, or desire, of the eternal law. And the eternal law is the divine order or will of God, which requires the preservation of natural order, and forbids the breach of it. But what is this natural order in man? Man, we know, consists of soul and body; but so does a beast. Again, it is plain that in the order of nature the soul is superior to the body. Moreover, in the soul of man there is reason, which is not in a beast. Therefore, as the soul is superior to the body, so in the soul itself the reason is superior by the law of nature to the other parts which are found also in beasts; and in reason itself, which is partly contemplation and partly action, contemplation is unquestionably the superior part. The object of contemplation is the image of God, by which we are renewed through faith to sight. Rational action ought therefore to be subject to the control of contemplation, which is exercised through faith while we are absent from the Lord, as it will be hereafter through sight, when we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is. 1 John 3:2 Then in a spiritual body we shall by His grace be made equal to angels, when we put on the garment of immortality and incorruption, with which this mortal and corruptible shall be clothed, that death may be swallowed up of victory, when righteousness is perfected through grace. For the holy and lofty angels have also their contemplation and action. They require of themselves the performance of the commands of Him whom they contemplate, whose eternal government they freely because sweetly obey. We, on the other hand, whose body is dead because of sin, till God quicken also our mortal bodies by His Spirit dwelling in us, live righteously in our feeble measure, according to the eternal law in which the law of nature is preserved, when we live by that faith unfeigned which works by love, having in a good conscience a hope of immortality and incorruption laid up in heaven, and of the perfecting of righteousness to the measure of an inexpressible satisfaction, for which in our pilgrimage we must hunger and thirst, while we walk by faith and not by sight.
The distinction itself is suggested by the scripture, as we know:
16 He that knoweth his brother to sin a sin which is not to death, let him ask, and life shall be given to him, who sinneth not to death. There is a sin unto death: for that I say not that any man ask. 17 All iniquity is sin. And there is a sin unto death. 18 We know that whosoever is born of God, sinneth not: but the generation of God preserveth him, and the wicked one toucheth him not. 19 We know that we are of God, and the whole world is seated in wickedness. 20 And we know that the Son of God is come: and he hath given us understanding that we may know the true God, and may be in his true Son. This is the true God and life eternal.(1 John 5)
Note that the passage that begins by warning of sin onto death, and ends with the promise of eternal life speaks of the understanding, and being, of true God. Note also that the sin that is not onto death is of such nature that the sinner himself does not know of it, and another must pray for him instead. This suggests an involuntary separation from God, which the Church calls venial sin.
It is a pity that St. Augustine did not get to this part in his homilies on 1 John.
I just did a search of the Ante and Post Nicene Fathers and found only a very, very few uses (5 to be exact in 40 volumes) of the term "mortal sin", all of them from Blessed Augustine save one, from +Basil the Great where he speaks of the deposition of a clergy man for "mortal sin", without definition and say he should not be "excommunicated". The translation I have is Roman Catholic and it would be interesting to see exactly what +Basil said in Greek.
I think its interesting that the other Fathers didn't make the distinction which Blessed Augustine apparently did. I just took a quick look at +John Chrysostomos' Homilies on John and found nothing.
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We need a homily on 1 Epistle of John, not Gospel of John.
In fact, the distinction can only be inferred from St. Augustine; 1 John makes it but does not elaborate much.
All the fathers cited predate St. Augustine.
"We need a homily on 1 Epistle of John, not Gospel of John."
Well that would explain why when I read 1 John v, I didn't see what you were talking about and of course +John Chrysostomos didn't write on that epistle. Sorry.
St. Augustine lived from 354 to 430. All the aforementioned fathers lived before him. So, no, these Church fathers were not citing him.
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