THE CADAVER SYNOD: STRANGEST TRIAL IN HISTORY

University Of Georgia ^ | October 31, 2001

[Gamecock]

Le Pape Formose doesn't look well at all.

(My professional opinion)

[Campion]

You mean you want me to use one which claims the Pope is always infallible.

Catholics don't believe the Pope is always infallible. Why is that so hard to understand?

[Alex Murphy]

Le Pape Formose doesn't look well at all.

I dunno - he's dressed impeccably. And he looks thoroughly ex cathedra to me.

[P-Marlowe]

Le Pape Formose doesn't look well at all.

It's the pressure from the inquisition. He does look a bit pale and gaunt.

I had seen that painting before but I never knew the meaning behind it. Very interesting.

How many Vicars of Christ were totally insane? I find it interesting that in death these popes seem to think they are better than the rest of us rotten souls. Formose's "punishment" was for his "body be stripped of its papal vestments, clad in the cheap garments of a lay person, and buried in a common grave."

Later, when it was decided that his accuser was the lousy pope the church, "Once more clothed [him] in the pontifical vestments, the body was placed before the Confession [the part of the high altar in which sacred relics were placed] of St. Peter's. There, in the presence of Pope Theodore II, a Mass was said for the soul of Formosus, and his poor battered body was restored to its own tomb."

Oh, his "poor battered body"! -- insert crocodile tears.

[xzins]

There was a discussion that involved papal infallibility yesterday in regards to Alex6 and other terribly misguided popes.

Everyone points out that infallibility only counts when the Pope is speaking on the Church....or something like that.

Do you agree with that?

Incidentally, it seems to me that Mary has nothing to do with issues about Church administration. Does that mean that papal infallibility is not in effect regarding papal proclamations regarding the assumption and the IC?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

How many Vicars of Christ were totally insane?

How many you got?

[Gamecock]

The number varies by who is doing the counting.

You see doc, there have been numerous accounts of multiple individuals claiming the keys at one time.

In fact, right now, I can count 4 guys claiming to be the Pope. I'm pulling for Pope Michael myself.

[HarleyD]

It's the pressure from the inquisition. He does look a bit pale and gaunt.

"Let the courts record that the defendent gives no answer."

[BelegStrongbow]

If you look, the article was written in 2001. JP II was Pope then, as I recall.

[johnthebaptistmoore]

Thanks, I overlooked the date of it.

[Campion]

Everyone points out that infallibility only counts when the Pope is speaking on the Church....or something like that.

The four conditions are:

1. The Pope must be speaking in his supreme apostolic authority, not as a private doctor, as the bishop of Rome, etc.
2. He must be addressing the whole church. This is why condemnations of individuals are not eligible. Neither is a private letter written to a single individual.
3. He must be intending to teach definitively. Speculation doesn't apply; he must be setting forth a single position that he intends to bind the whole church to believe.
4. He must be addressing a doctrine concerning faith or morals. A mere disciplinary issue, like suppressing the Jesuits or who may distribute communion at Mass, doesn't qualify. It has to be a definition of doctrine.

Pretty much everyone is agreed that the Papal decrees dogmatizing the IC and the Assumption were infallible, ex cathedra statements.

[Campion]

Oh, I forgot. The four conditions are all required; 3 out of 4 doesn't make the grade. Conditions #2 and #4 happen rather frequently; #1 is less common, and #3 is very rare.

[xzins]

Must he specifically say that he is "intending to bind the church with definitive teaching?"

[Campion]

There's no exact formula or specific language required, but yes, he needs to be clear that this isn't a subject for debate, subject to change, just an opinion, or anything like that.

A technical term that's sometimes used is de fide definita, "a definition of or pertaining to the faith". Another term you'll see is a requirement that something must be "believed with divine and Catholic faith".

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

***Five popes were assassinated in office, or deposed and then murdered. ***

Way back in 1968 just after the murder of Bobby Kennedy someone wrote to a newspaper and asked the question "Have any popes ever been muredred?"

The newspaper's answer was "No".
This was during the gun-control madness after Kennedy's murder.

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

Any difference between this and Charles II hanging the body of Cromwell after his death?

[Alex Murphy]

Must he specifically say that he is "intending to bind the church with definitive teaching?"

Not only that, but I hear he must wear the correct hat the entire time, too.

[Campion]

Here's a good example of definitive teaching on a matter of faith and morals:

Wherefore, in order that all doubt may be removed regarding a matter of great importance, a matter which pertains to the Church's divine constitution itself, in virtue of my ministry of confirming the brethren (cf. Lk 22:32) I declare that the Church has no authority whatsoever to confer priestly ordination on women and that this judgment is to be definitively held by all the Church's faithful. (Pope John Paul II, Ordinatio Sacerdotalis, May 22, 1994)

I should point out that theologians asked the Vatican directly whether this was a true ex cathedra Papal definition, and the reply was negative, with the explanation being that it was re-stating something that was already infallibly known.

[dangus]

It was a common piety in the middle ages to acknowledge (and even amplify) the sinful behavior of the clergy, particular the popes, that all the people should know that the truth of the Catholic Church rests not in the holiness of the man, but in the divine protection of the office. Indeed, from John Crysostum to Dante', it is a great tradition.

The downside of the enormous popularity of John Paul II and Benedict XVI is that, although their piety is s much-needed example in the wicked world of today, the popular expectation has become that popes should be holy.

[grey_whiskers]

The proposition that the Sun is the center of the world and does not move from its place is absurd and false philosophically and formally heretical, because it is expressly contrary to Holy Scripture.

It is also patently absurd scientifically. Ever step back and consider the difference between our Solar System and the entire Milky Way galaxy for example?

The sun is in one of the spiral arms.

Cheers!