Posted on 01/16/2007 8:00:22 AM PST by cowboyfan88
Ye shall not do after all the things that we do here this day, every man whatsoever is right in his own eyes.-Deuteronomy 12:8
My concern is that too many people avoid studying the OT, and as a result, they are unaware of much fine teaching. I have been teaching the Book of Genesis for the last four years...to the same class. We just began chapter 4 last Sunday - and my adult students are amazed at the wealth of information that we have covered so far.
I often get accused of ignoring the Old Testament. That probably comes from the same kind of misunderstanding that you had initially. There are things being practiced and taught in denominations today that are based on the Old Testament, when the New Testament contradicts that which is practiced and taught.
Are you saying the New Testament contradicts the Old Testament?
I should have used a different word. Let me clarify what I am trying to say. As an example, there are those who still worship on Saturday, claiming to keep the Sabbath. However, the church in the New Testament worshipped on Sunday, the Lord's day. Those who still teach that worship is on the Sabbath are contradicting what was practiced by the first century church, as is recorded in the New Testament.
There is no hint of a Sunday worship service anywhere in the New Testament....nor is it commanded. You are on very shaky theological ground here. You may have traditions that require you to honor Sunday as your day of worship....but you have no scripture.
But some twenty posts earlier, Iscool said
Yep...God wants educated people like you to study an old, dead language that He hasn't messed with for 2000 years so you have some idea what God has to say...You go ahead and keep believing that (snicker)...
Many people have claimed that there is no use in knowing what the original koine Greek words meant. That is nothing more than a ridiculous attempt to deny the clear meaning of Scripture when it disagrees with someone's viewpoint.
Alex Murphy, do you worship on Sunday? If so, why?
How many times does the wheel have to be invented??? There are over 200 translated bibles in English as it is...Many have already done the work...And what light are you going to shed on any verse with your knowledge of Greek or Hebrew that hasn't already been shed???
Do you think 'on' is a big improvement over 'upon'??? What a waste of time and money...
I never said "on" or "upon" was correct. I guess my point did not come across. The Greek word that is used carries the idea of succession. In other words, while sometimes it is rendered as "upon the first day of the week" or "on the first day of the week", a more literal translation is "upon the first day of every week". The point is that Christians met on the first day of the week in the New Testament.
Verses 1-6 lay the ground work for this much misunderstood ...and misinterpreted passage. Paul has just been through a riot in Ephesus (previous chapter) and is now setting out for Macedonia and finally arrives in Greece. He stays there three months but because of a plot against him decides to go back through Macedonia again. Some of his friends go on before him to Troas and Paul sails from Phillipi after The Feast of Unleavened Bread and after five days joins the others at Troas.
This places the season as Passover week and specifically .....during the counting of the Omer to Pentecost. [Leviticus 23:15]
The Greek says "mia twn sabbatwn" which has incorrectly been translated "on the first day of the week". The King James even italicizes the word "DAY" to let every one know it is not part of the original manuscript. The Greek word for day is "HEMERA" and appears no where. The correct translation of "mia twn sabbatwn" would be one of the Sabbaths. Asking any first century Hebrew what the term "one of the Sabbaths.... or first of the Sabbaths" meant you would be promptly told it was one of the seven Sabbaths counted between Passover and Pentecost.
The same usage of the Greek is found in your example of 1 Corinthians 16:2 and as well indicates the folks are to set aside something on "one of the Sabbaths". As you can see by the context of this verse it is also Passover season as Paul indicates he will stay on at Ephesus until Pentecost (verse 8).
Strong's 4521 Sabbatwn is listed under the heading of Sabbaton (Sabbath) and is simply the plural of the usage. It is indicated as both the Greek word for Acts 20:7 as well as 1 Corinthians 16:2. It does not mean Sunday nor does it mean first day of the week. It means One of the Sabbaths specifically between Passover and Pentecost.
As stated earlier, Sunday observance is simply a tradition of the Roman Church which has unfortunately been fostered upon most of Protestantism with absolutely no Biblical command or authorization.
The Greek word sabbaton can also mean "seven days, a week". And you are wrong that worship on Sunday is simply a tradition of the Roman church.
***The correct translation of "mia twn sabbatwn" would be one of the Sabbaths.***
Another verse would be "prote sabbatu", or I think that is what it was, It's been years since I read it,
The teacher said it would men "on the first day of the first week of the seven weeks before Penticost".
First of all, you must realize there is no word in the ancient Greek for Sabbath.....primarily, as it was never celebrated. Consequently the Hebrew, Shabbat or Shabbaton (special Sabbath) is translated Sabbatwn in [Matthew 28:1][Mark 16:2][Luke 24:1][Acts 20:6-7] and [1 Corinthians 16:2].
Since "Sabbatwn" is a borrowed Hebrew term identifying certain special days of the Feasts, we know this term refers to one of the seven weekly Sabbaths between Passover and Pentecost during the counting of the Omer. The Greek word "mia" as in "Mia Twn Sabbatwn" does not mean first....it means one. If the scripture were speaking of the "First Day" it would say....."Protos Hemera".....hemera meaning Greek for "day".....protos for "first". As indicated in my earlier response to you the word "day" is Italicized and does not appear in any manuscript. It was added by those with a Sunday observance agenda.
So, by the Holy Spirit inspiring the words "mia twn Sabbatwn", it is very clear that Our Saviour's resurrection took place on a day that was both a weekly Shabbat....as well as an annual Shabbaton.....one of the weekly Sabbaths from Passover to Pentecost...obviously, the first one. That is why many translations show "First of the Sabbaths". To translate this term as "First Day of the Week" not only changes the primary meaning of the word "mia" but it ignores the fact that the Hebrew term Shabbaton even exists in the Greek text as Sabbatwn.
The Sabbath is mentioned 126 times in the Old Testament ....62 times in the New. The words "First Day of the Week" are mentioned eight times in the King James Bible, each time an incorrect translation.....and not once with a sacred intent. Five of these times are the "women visiting the tomb"[Matthew 28:1; Mark 16:2; Mark 16:9; Luke 24:1; and John 20:1]. One of them show the disciples assembled "For Fear of the Jews" [John 20:19]. Another shows an after Sabbath (Havdalah) meal [Acts 20:7]....notice the lights are on. The last one is simply a collection for the poor in Jerusalem [1 Corinthians 16:2].
You may sincerely believe that Sunday worship is not a Roman tradition....but you are very wrong. It is the basis of their entire religious system....Sun worship. unfortunately, they have convinced much of main stream Christianity of the legitimacy of this false system but if one desires to seek the truth in all things....it is not difficult to uncover.
There is a problem with your accusation that the Roman Catholic church came up with worship on the first day of the week. Christians were worshipping on that day long before the Catholic church came into existence.
You are correct....many who called themselves "Christian" were worshiping on Sunday early in the history of the Church. This with no scriptural authority, no divine command...only at the behest of.... [Jude 4] For certain men whose condemnation was written about long ago have secretly slipped in among you. They are godless men, who change the grace of our God into a license for immorality and deny Jesus Christ our only Sovereign and Lord.
And....[2 John 7] Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the Antichrist.
It is no secret that the "Early Church" suffered apostasy immediately....Paul speaks of it constantly. Have you ever wondered why the Roman Church had to publish Canons against worshiping on the Sabbath....or observing High Sabbaths with the Jews? These Canons were still being published well into the fourth and fifth centuries. There was always a remnant of the true "First Century Church" that kept the Sabbaths and Festivals of the Lord.....as the Apostles did. There still is!
The keeping of sabbaths was never binding on Christians, as it was never binding on anyone other than the physical nation of Israel. Also, we are not under a "schoolmaster" (Galatians 3:24-25).
There's the problem. Should have read the Bible.
The Sabbath has been in force since creation....was not part of the "Mosaic" ceremonial law and has nothing to do with your quote. God's Sabbaths and Feast days are not the Law added 430 years later (verse 17).
If the Sabbaths and Feast days were not to be observed, why did Our Lord and all the Apostles observe them.....in the case of the Apostles....after the crucifixion. If your answer is a simple "they didn't"... I will expect scripture to back up your claim. I will be able to show you many scriptures that they did.....in fact I already have... in previous posts on this thread!
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