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Are you saved?
Pastor Ricky Kurth

Posted on 12/29/2006 4:47:11 AM PST by cowboyfan88

Edited on 12/29/2006 8:32:56 AM PST by Admin Moderator. [history]

The assurance of salvation is the most important thing in life. It should be the number one concern of every human being. Sadly, too often it is not.

The good news is, the Bible teaches that you can know for sure that you are going to heaven. I John 5:13 says: "These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may KNOW THAT YE HAVE ETERNAL LIFE..." Notice that this verse doesn't say, "that ye may HOPE that you can GET eternal life." It says that you can know that you have it, as a present possession.

How do you get it?

Acts 16:31 says: "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved..." Notice again that it doesn't say, "Believe and you will someday be saved." It rather says, "Believe...and BE saved." Of course, the word "saved" makes a lot of people nervous.

A man told me once, "We don't speak in those terms at our church." But that's a shame, because the Bible uses this word over and over again. John Newton used it hundreds of years ago when he wrote that most beloved of all Christian hymns, "Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound that SAVED a wretch like me." You've probably even sung that song! Well, it was written by a man who was saved, and you can be saved too. Ephesians 2:8,9 says: "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God” “Not of works, lest any man should boast."

Here we see that people are saved "by grace," and "through faith." By God's grace. Through your faith. Faith and believing are the same thing. If you believe something, it means you have faith in it. Notice also the contrast to "works." Works are things that we can DO.

Most people think that they can be saved by the things that they do. If they don't do bad things, if they instead do good things, they think that they will be saved. The problem with this system is that you can never be SURE that you've done enough good things, and avoided enough bad things, to be saved. That's why the people who believe this are generally not sure they are saved. But Romans 4:16 says, "Therefore it is OF FAITH, that it might be BY GRACE, to the end THE PROMISE MIGHT BE SURE..." The only way you can be sure of salvation is by faith. If you had to do as little as lift your finger to be saved, you could never be sure that you had done it right.

But by faith we can believe that the Lord Jesus Christ did it right. We can be sure that He lived a sinless life. He never did anything wrong, He did everything right. A person like that didn't deserve to die. The Bible says that "the wages of sin is death" (Romans 6:23). But He was no sinner. Why did He have to die? Ah, He died OUR death. He died our death so that we could have His righteousness and be saved. II Corinthians 5:21 says: "For God made Him to be sin for us, who knew no sin, that we might be made the righteousness of God in Him."

Two thousand years ago, God laid all of our sins on Christ as He hung on Calvary. But that doesn't mean that everyone is saved! Two thousand years later, WHEN YOU BELIEVE that Christ paid for all of your sins, God then takes Christ's righteousness and puts it on you, completing the transaction that must be completed for the redemption of your soul.

I like to explain it this way. God says to us in the Bible that Christ paid for all of your sins. The only question is,

Do you BELIEVE God when He says that all of your sins are paid for? Do you TRUST Him when He says that?

If you do, the Bible says that you are SAVED.

If you don't, well, you just have to go on trying to pay for your sins in your own way. By being good. By not being bad. But these are things the Bible says you can't do well enough to be saved. Romans 4:5 says: "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, HIS FAITH is COUNTED FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS." Titus 3:5 says: "Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost."

That big word "regeneration" is just a big word that means to be "born again," as the Lord talked about in John 3. But in both of these verses, you can see that salvation is by faith alone, and has nothing to do with your conduct. Most people think that we are all born GOOD, and on our way to heaven, and that we have to do something REALLY BAD to blow it and go to hell. But the Bible teaches the opposite. The Bible teaches that we are all born bad, and have to get saved by faith to go to heaven. Sometimes when we explain this, people then ask, "Why then should I be good?"

The answer to this question is, we should be good out of gratitude for God for saving us. Earlier I quoted Ephesians 2:8,9 to show that we are saved "by grace" and "through faith." But the NEXT verse in Ephesians 2 tells us where "being good" comes in: "For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them" (Ephesians 2:10).

When we are saved, we are made "new creatures" in Christ (II Corinthians 5:17). But Ephesians 2:10 here says that we were "created in Christ Jesus UNTO good works." That is, we were saved by faith, but we were saved FOR A PURPOSE, for a reason. God saved us and made us new creatures in Christ so that we would THEN do good works.

Most people get the cart before the horse, as the saying goes. Most people think you do good works, then God saves you. The Bible teaches that instead we are saved by believing, then we SHOULD do good works. Right after Titus 3:5 says we are saved "not by works of righteousness," three verses later it says, "...these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful TO MAINTAIN GOOD WORKS. These things are good and profitable unto men."

Do you see it? We are not saved by good works, but after we are saved by faith, we are told we should do good works to please the One who saved us. Romans 6:23 says: "For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Here there is a contrast drawn between "wages" and a "gift." Wages are something that we EARN. We go to work, and work all week, and the boss pays us. If we want to be polite, we can say "thank you" when he hands us the check, but we don't have to. He OWES us that money, we EARNED it.

But a gift is something altogether different. You can't earn a gift. If you did, it wouldn't be a gift. That's why the verses BEFORE Romans 4:5 says, "Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on Him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness." You can't earn a gift, you can only receive it. And the way you receive the gift of salvation is by faith, by believing God when He says your sins are paid for. Suppose you were a gambler, and racked up a debt of a million dollars to the Mafia. They threatened to kill you unless you paid up. A wealthy friend learns of your plight and comes to you and says, "Don't worry, I've paid your debt."

Now in this case, you must REALLY BELIEVE that your friend paid your debt. You must really TRUST your friend when he says that. That's why the other word that the Bible uses besides "believe" is "trust." Ephesians 1:12 talks about people... "...who first TRUSTED in Christ "In whom ye also TRUSTED, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise" (Ephesians 1:13).

If you DON'T trust that your friend paid your gambling debt, then you will most likely continue to make payments to your bookie or loan shark. But if you DO trust your friend when he says that your debt has been paid, then you will rest comfortably in that knowledge, knowing that you've been "saved" from an awful fate, and you will be forever grateful to the one who saved you. That's how salvation works too.

In John 5:24, the Lord said: "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth My word, and believeth on Him that sent Me, HATH EVERLASTING LIFE, and SHALL NOT COME INTO CONDEMNATION, but IS PASSED FROM DEATH UNTO LIFE." Here we see that the Bible teaches that not only are you saved if you believe on the Lord, you already possess eternal life, and it is NOT POSSIBLE for you to ever be condemned for your sins, for you are ALREADY passed "from death unto [eternal] life." Remember, Acts 16:31 says, "believe...and...be saved." It DOESN'T say, "Believe and be good." It doesn't even say, "Believe and be religious." It just says believe and be saved.

If you believe that Christ died to pay for all of your sins, and that you don't have to pay for any of them, the Bible says you are saved. In I Corinthians 15:1-4, the Apostle Paul identifies “the gospel” that he preached to the Corinthians, by which they were “saved”: “For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures; “And that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures” You too can be among those who are “saved,” if you will simply put your faith in the blood of the Lord Jesus Christ (Romans 3:25).


TOPICS: Apologetics; Theology
KEYWORDS: faith; grace; paragraph; salvation; saved; works
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To: bornacatholic

http://www.pro-gospel.org/01/ea-037.php


221 posted on 01/02/2007 7:07:53 AM PST by faithplusnothing1
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To: faithplusnothing1
There is only one source that will never mislead you, never deceive you or try to control you. It is Christ and His Word (John 14:6; 17:17). Jesus said: "If you abide in My word ... you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free" (John 8:31-32). Free from what? Free from the bondage of religious deception. Knowledge of the truth is necessary to escape from the snare of the devil who holds people captive to do his will (2 Tim. 2:25-26). Satan uses deceitful workers who disguise themselves as apostles of Christ to blind people from the truth (2 Cor. 11:13-15). Knowing this, Rome defiantly declares its Bishops to be successors of the "apostles of Christ." According to the Catechism of the Catholic Church (CCC), "whoever listens to them is listening to Christ" (CCC, para. 862). We must tell Catholics their bishops fail the test for apostles given in Acts 1:21-26. There have been only two successors of the apostles - Matthias was chosen by the apostles and Paul was chosen by Christ (Acts 9:1-19

* I am sure you source is well-intentioned. However, he is ignorant.

Adversus Haereses (Book III, Chapter 3)

A refutation of the heretics, from the fact that, in the various Churches, a perpetual succession of bishops was kept up.

1. It is within the power of all, therefore, in every Church, who may wish to see the truth, to contemplate clearly the tradition of the apostles manifested throughout the whole world; and we are in a position to reckon up those who were by the apostles instituted bishops in the Churches, and [to demonstrate] the succession of these men to our own times; those who neither taught nor knew of anything like what these [heretics] rave about. For if the apostles had known hidden mysteries, which they were in the habit of imparting to "the perfect" apart and privily from the rest, they would have delivered them especially to those to whom they were also committing the Churches themselves. For they were desirous that these men should be very perfect and blameless in all things, whom also they were leaving behind as their successors, delivering up their own place of government to these men; which men, if they discharged their functions honestly, would be a great boon [to the Church], but if they should fall away, the direst calamity.

2. Since, however, it would be very tedious, in such a volume as this, to reckon up the successions of all the Churches, we do put to confusion all those who, in whatever manner, whether by an evil self-pleasing, by vainglory, or by blindness and perverse opinion, assemble in unauthorized meetings; [we do this, I say,] by indicating that tradition derived from the apostles, of the very great, the very ancient, and universally known Church founded and organized at Rome by the two most glorious apostles, Peter and Paul; as also [by pointing out] the faith preached to men, which comes down to our time by means of the successions of the bishops. For it is a matter of necessity that every Church should agree with this Church, on account of its pre- eminent authority, that is, the faithful everywhere, inasmuch as the apostolical tradition has been preserved continuously by those [faithful men] who exist everywhere.

3. The blessed apostles, then, having founded and built up the Church, committed into the hands of Linus the office of the episcopate. Of this Linus, Paul makes mention in the Epistles to Timothy. To him succeeded Anacletus; and after him, in the third place from the apostles, Clement was allotted the bishopric. This man, as he had seen the blessed apostles, and had been conversant with them, might be said to have the preaching of the apostles still echoing [in his ears], and their traditions before his eyes. Nor was he alone [in this], for there were many still remaining who had received instructions from the apostles. In the time of this Clement, no small dissension having occurred among the brethren at Corinth, the Church in Rome despatched a most powerful letter to the Corinthians, exhorting them to peace, renewing their faith, and declaring the tradition which it had lately received from the apostles, proclaiming the one God, omnipotent, the Maker of heaven and earth, the Creator of man, who brought on the deluge, and called Abraham, who led the people from the land of Egypt, spoke with Moses, set forth the law, sent the prophets, and who has prepared fire for the devil and his angels. From this document, whosoever chooses to do so, may learn that He, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, was preached by the Churches, and may also understand the apostolical tradition of the Church, since this Epistle is of older date than these men who are now propagating falsehood, and who conjure into existence another god beyond the Creator and the Maker of all existing things. To this Clement there succeeded Evaristus. Alexander followed Evaristus; then, sixth from the apostles, Sixtus was appointed; after him, Telephorus, who was gloriously martyred; then Hyginus; after him, Pius; then after him, Anicetus. Sorer having succeeded Anicetus, Eleutherius does now, in the twelfth place from the apostles, hold the inheritance of the episcopate. In this order, and by this succession, the ecclesiastical tradition from the apostles, and the preaching of the truth, have come down to us. And this is most abundant proof that there is one and the same vivifying faith, which has been preserved in the Church from the apostles until now, and handed down in truth.

4. But Polycarp also was not only instructed by apostles, and conversed with many who had seen Christ, but was also, by apostles in Asia, appointed bishop of the Church in Smyrna, whom I also saw in my early youth, for he tarried [on earth] a very long time, and, when a very old man, gloriously and most nobly suffering martyrdom, departed this life, having always taught the things which he had learned from the apostles, and which the Church has handed down, and which alone are true. To these things all the Asiatic Churches testify, as do also those men who have succeeded Polycarp down to the present time,—a man who was of much greater weight, and a more steadfast witness of truth, than Valentinus, and Marcion, and the rest of the heretics. He it was who, coming to Rome in the time of Anicetus caused many to turn away from the aforesaid heretics to the Church of God, proclaiming that he had received this one and sole truth from the apostles,—that, namely, which is handed down by the Church. There are also those who heard from him that John, the disciple of the Lord, going to bathe at Ephesus, and perceiving Cerinthus within, rushed out of the bath-house without bathing, exclaiming, "Let us fly, lest even the bath-house fall down, because Cerinthus, the enemy of the truth, is within." And Polycarp himself replied to Marcion, who met him on one occasion, and said, "Do you know me?" "I do know you, the first-born of Satan." Such was the horror which the apostles and their disciples had against holding even verbal communication with any corrupters of the truth; as Paul also says, "A man that is an heretic, after the first and second admonition, reject; knowing that he that is such is subverted, and sinneth, being condemned of himself." Titus 3:10 There is also a very powerful Epistle of Polycarp written to the Philippians, from which those who choose to do so, and are anxious about their salvation, can learn the character of his faith, and the preaching of the truth. Then, again, the Church in Ephesus, founded by Paul, and having John remaining among them permanently until the times of Trajan, is a true witness of the tradition of the apostles.

*Peter resurrected Tabitha. protestants resurrect heresies.

222 posted on 01/02/2007 7:52:07 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

We will just have to disagree. I will take Jesus' word that it is finished and trust in what he did and you can put your trust in your religious system.


223 posted on 01/02/2007 8:24:37 AM PST by faithplusnothing1
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To: Nabber

If God sends a man who had a saving faith in Christ to Hell for a sin he later committed, He contradicts Himself.


224 posted on 01/02/2007 8:26:31 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: faithplusnothing1
You couldn't resist a parting slight, could you?
225 posted on 01/02/2007 8:55:42 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: Cvengr
Not every one that saith to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven:
226 posted on 01/02/2007 9:02:23 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: bornacatholic

We're not talking about unbelievers, we're discussing the destiny of believers.


227 posted on 01/02/2007 9:28:25 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: nanster

There are many believers who fall or backslide. That still doesn't remove them from His royal family.

Our Lord and Savior will judge us. We will be baptised by fire and those works which are not divinely good will be burnt up like wood hay, and stubble. That which is good, will remain as though purified as gold. We will be rewarded for thoe good works.

Our saving faith in Him will be retained as it is a good work from Him. He will not destroy His good works.


228 posted on 01/02/2007 9:41:23 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: Cvengr

That is who Jesus is speaking about


229 posted on 01/02/2007 10:18:28 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: Cvengr
Lip-service etc insufficient: Lk 6:46, 13:26 f. Our Lord is passing on to his concluding appeal for serious action. He has just spoken, 15-20, of false teachers; he speaks now of the danger of self-deception - the danger or presuming upon the privilege of belonging officially to the fellowship of Jesus.

Luke 6....And why call you me, Lord, Lord; and do not the things which I say?

Luke 13 ..Then you shall begin to say: We have eaten and drunk in thy presence, and thou hast taught in our streets. And he shall say to you: I know you not, whence you are: depart from me, all ye workers of iniquity.

*But, that won't stop you from judging yourself saved. I am just posting this for lurkers.

230 posted on 01/02/2007 10:39:38 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: cva66snipe
If you killed someone or took an extra newspaper at the vending machine without paying you are just as guilty of sin. The price is the same

How bout Jeffrey Dahmer and the person who took an extra newspaper? Price still the same?

231 posted on 01/02/2007 10:44:47 AM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant

Price is still the same and paid en full by the same Redeemer.

If it is possible for a murderer to go to hell after at some point in his life he had saving faith and was given a spirit life by God the Holy Spirit, then likewise there is no salvation for any human, including our Lord and Savior Christ Jesus, becasue the basis for salvation of the believer is identical to that of Christ.(Rom 3:22-26) Sin has already been judged.

We are not judged either in heaven nor at the bema seat for sin. Our works are judged and the Book of Life is opened.

We will be tested and our works which do not survive the fire will be burnt up. God is not required to face any iniquity in heaven, and He also was omniscient in His decision to give His believers eternal life. (If it isn't eternal life, he would have called it a temporary lease on life,..he didn't,..He is very clear on the topic.)


232 posted on 01/02/2007 11:31:15 AM PST by Cvengr
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
How bout Jeffrey Dahmer and the person who took an extra newspaper? Price still the same?

What about him? Just how mentally sick do you think someone who is a cannibal is anyway? Does a saved person who let's says has Tourettes go to hell. Hey they can let some curses fly. I knew a guy as a kid who could preach a sermon one second and out curse anyone the next. Dahmer was sick. Did Dahmer sin? Yes. Did Dahmer except Christ? I have no idea nor do you either. Did he pray for what he did on earth either in his on death or torment? Yes.

How about Aundrea Yates or the woman in Tennessee who shot her minister husband? People in this forum were biting at the bit wishing to welcome them to hell. So much for Love Thy Neighbor as Thy self breaking one of Christ biggest commandments. How about Father forgive them for they know not what they do in the cases of Yates, Dahmer, and the woman in Tennessee? It doesn't take a person with a degree in pyschriatritry looking at their pictures to see something bad wrong was happening to them.

But even the ones who we knew were evil such as Hitler and Saddam? How many even prayed for Saddams salvation? Did you? We are required to do so as Christians. That does not mean we do not still pay the price for sin while on earth.

Is there a sin more serious than murder? Oh yes indeed there is. It is calling another man an idiot {fool} actually. Think about it. Do you wish to be judged for each time you have called someone such. How about moments before you die? The minute you die in a wreck or drop over from a massive heart attack.

Asking forgiveness on a daily and sometimes several times a day basis is necessary to keep us in Fellowship with the Lord. Sin separates us from fellowship on this earth but not our eternal salvation. That is because salvation does not depend upon mans works or mans word or deed but rather the Word Of GOD. A Blood Covenant is not breakable in the Bible. A Blood Covenant depends not upon man but rather GOD's Word. How can anyone be saved? If we all sin even unto our deaths how can we then? Sin of any type separates us from GOD as GOD can not look upon sin of any kind because He is HOLY. One sin if the biggest or the least is not asked of forgiveness before we die we are condemned then we are doomed? Who can be saved? "Through GOD everything is possible." Sin by the saved keeps us from fellowship with the Lord. That is why we pray for forgiveness even after we are saved.

You are trying to put us back to being judged for following the law and obtaining salvation from such. Many churches wish to place those type of burdens back on the ones of whom Christ has set free.

My sins are many both before and after my salvation came. I am noticing though the longer I live the more free from the desire of sin I am gaining. Certainly not of my own doing as I am a sinner. It didn't happen overnight. It's taken 35 plus years to get there since that day. I found the sins of my youth were soon enjoyable. Conscience told me turn away from it. That as well did not happen overnight. Did not a very wise man once come to such conclusions? He tried nearly everything that could be tried. What did it bring him? Such as he paid for their sins on earth but live today in heaven. Why? By faith. GOD looked upon some pretty sinful persons Abraham, Jacob {The Father of the nation of Israel}, Lott, Noah, David, Solomon, Peter, Paul, and many other and because of their faith were made righteous before GOD. Their deeds would have sent them all to hell.

233 posted on 01/02/2007 11:59:48 AM PST by cva66snipe (If it was wrong for Clinton why do some support it for Bush? Party over nation destroys the nation.)
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To: Cvengr

"If God sends a man who had a saving faith in Christ to Hell for a sin he later committed..."

...then that man committed an egregious sin which, evidently, he did not feel he needed to ask for God's forgiveness.

Perhaps murder is not a sin we see too often from saved people. Perhaps. But we do see adulterers who never think that they have committed an egregious sin, nor do they think they have to ask forgiveness from God. I pray they do not die that way.

I don't judge them; after all, I could be wrong. But I sure stay away from them.


234 posted on 01/02/2007 12:04:45 PM PST by Nabber
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To: Nabber
Some sects have their believers follow doctrine that says that after you are saved, you are already forgiven for anything you might do. They can cheat on their spouses and never have to ask God's forgiveness, for they surely are going to heaven, anyway.

The Bible states those who do so and teach others to do so will be the least in the Kingdom on Heaven.

19 So if you break the smallest commandment and teach others to do the same, you will be the least in the Kingdom of Heaven. But anyone who obeys God’s laws and teaches them will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven.

I would not want to teach anyone to sin. Sin is harmfull to the spiritual and physical being.

235 posted on 01/02/2007 12:39:46 PM PST by cva66snipe (If it was wrong for Clinton why do some support it for Bush? Party over nation destroys the nation.)
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To: bornacatholic

I discern my salvation through faith in Christ.

Faith + Works voids a saving faith.

Faith + Obedience voids a saving faith.

Faith + Inviting the Lord into your Heart voids a saving faith.

Once one has a valid simple saving faith, God the Holy Spirit performs the work of salvation in the believer.

If one denies the saving work of the Holy Spirit, then one grieves the Holy Spirit.

By 1stJohn 1:9 we return into fellowship with Him upon turning back to Him with volition and admitting our disobedience to Him. This places our thinking in a state of humility that allows God the Holy Spirit to continue His enabling ministry in our thinking to put on the mind of Christ.

For this reason, whenever we sin after salvation we seek to return to him on His grounds.

If we are unable to return to Him in our thinking or confess those sins, He is not free to further sanctify us prior to the first death. The Judgment will come, and those things which are good in us will be baptised by fire. For believers who have the reborn spirit and saving faith through Christ, life continues eternally. For those who never had eternal life, awaits the Torments.

BTW, you may want to revisit basic concepts of simple faith as opposed to obedience and keeping the law. God desires a relationship with His believers. That relationship only occurs through faith. Without faith through Christ, studying Scripture will only scar the soul in legalism.


236 posted on 01/02/2007 2:32:44 PM PST by Cvengr
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To: cva66snipe

I agree with you.

I find it difficult to believe that some on this thread are not saying that, indeed. Sure seems like it.

"once saved, always saved" is anathema.

Look it up.

When we preach to all humans "out there", are we saying there are two different rules? Do not be a murderer, do not be an adulterer, but if you're saved, you have different rules? Both can end up in hell, surely.


237 posted on 01/02/2007 7:13:34 PM PST by Nabber
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To: Nabber
"once saved, always saved" is anathema. Look it up. When we preach to all humans "out there", are we saying there are two different rules? Do not be a murderer, do not be an adulterer, but if you're saved, you have different rules? Both can end up in hell, surely.

If Deacon Smith gets in an argument with Mr Jones both Christians over a land boundary {as an example} and it escalates into a fight and in anger Deacon Smith and Mr Jones shoot each other will either go to hell? No but both will physically die as a result of their anger.

On the other hand if Preacher Joe who runs the First Church in where ever has made a life long habit of molesting his daughters and allowing his daughters to be molested I would have to come to a conclusion that Preacher Joe is a shyster the word dwells not within him nor did they ever. In other words He likely uses the position for self gain. There are many people in church for purposes other than to worship the LORD. It's a business club to them or a social group. And there are some preachers who are no more saved than a pig is a poodle.

Murder is serious yes as is adultery. In the eyes of some church doctrines I am guilty of the second due to marrying a divorced woman. She never cheated on her husband but he sure did her. Was I wrong to marry her? According to some church guidelines yes. According to our own preacher who BTW was about as conservative in doctrine as you could get {Missionary Baptist} we were told in the eyes of GOD her marriage ended when he took the other woman {child} over his wife.

Was it sin for us? Not sure a Priest and a Baptist preacher gave their go aheads as they saw the circumstances. The LORD told me Go Ahead. We went ahead.

Jesus tells us how marriage was intended to be. But I don't think he wants a woman to have her body beaten and cheated on by a tyrant husband either.

Ones I do know who have left their wife for another live to regret it. I am helping a person close to me now through a divorce {she was abandoned recently for another woman} and hopefully to a man who will be a good father and husband. Despite all the pain the man caused to many of us I pray for him and he is on a path of self destruction few return from. No I don't think he has ever excepted Christ. But I don't know.

I personally believe if he was saved and had a conscience which he had not severed he would have been guilt ridden. But the man could tell you the Lord was coming soon with a straight face and steal you blind the next second.

Some of my own backsliding lasted several years at a time. Did GOD let me perish? No. And not because of any good in me because there is little if any good in me. He did it for His own purpose and will.

One of the best examples of GOD's mercy to His chosen is shown us in the very exodus of Israel of the tribe of Israel. They were a disobedient lot weren't they. Making images to worship, sexual impurity, you name it. Did GOD give up? No He had made a Covenant. What did he let them do instead? 40 years in the wilderness till they learned that He is the LORD their GOD. An entire generation perished including Moses their leader. This was a result of their sin on earth. GOD did not give them to the devil.

Where would a Christian stand who falls? Out of fellowship. You sin Brother Bill and as a result you will wonder in the darkness you created until you wake up and repent. GOD knows where you are and will still call you. When you wise up fellowship is restored. If not you live in the stench on this earth you created. Once saved and by that I mean a sincere heart humbled before the LORD answering His call of salvation yes always saved. It is as irrevocable as the Covenant of Israel for it depends not on man to fulfill it but GOD's Word.

I've seen good men fall. A deacon who went to church. I knew him as a kid. His wife died. Let's call him Clem. His pain overwhelmed him and he started drinking. He never harmed anyone but his own liver and health. He had a cousin a woman with 9 kids who's husband had left her for another woman. The man did not so much many weeks buy as much as a loaf of bread. When that happened who showed up? Her cousin the drunk with bags of groceries to feed the kids. He'd drink his beer and pass out and go back to work Monday.

Next door to them was another deacon. A man of good standing in the church and community. Every Sunday Brother Sam would ask the kids to go to church. Sometimes they did sometimes not. Brother Sam was proud of bringing in those kids to church. What the church did not know was the kids had no running water in the house. They carried water from neighbors spickets. It was a rural area. Deacon Sam didn't want his well going dry so he didn't let them have water although common sense said where he was that was not going to happen. The water table was very high. Someone else instead let them get water from their well.

Now three people one day will stand before the Lord Deacon Sam, the man who left his wife and kids hungry, and Deacon Clem. Which would you want to be of the three? I'd rather be Clem. Yet many preachers would be quick to say Clem was headed to hell. Clem drank because he had a pain within him that could not be comforted. I don't know much about Clems last days as he died just a few years back. My guess is he finally got help otherwise he would have died from drinking long ago. Despite his faults Clem did more for the children than their dad and the deacon next door. Clem gave them food he fed the children the drunk he was.

Mark ch 9 41If anyone gives you even a cup of water because you belong to the Messiah, I assure you, that person will be rewarded.

R.I.P Brother Spook.

No one not even the man he bought the groceries from knew what he was doing with them. Why would a drunk who lived in people barns buy several 5 pound rolls of bologna, bread, potato's, cornmeal, and bags of soup beans? My wife asked me that as she knew the man also for years. I told her the reason. I played with those children as a kid.

My guess is Brother Clem cried many a time Father have mercy on me a sinner. There is a say "But for the Grace of GOD Go I". None of us know what we'll be tomorrow or what will come our way. Thank GOD we have a mercifull Savior who understands and even our very spirit groans in prayer where our minds can not.

238 posted on 01/02/2007 9:03:31 PM PST by cva66snipe (If it was wrong for Clinton why do some support it for Bush? Party over nation destroys the nation.)
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To: Cvengr
That relationship only occurs through faith

*That is an unbiblical assertion. Jesus, among other things, feeds us with His Body and Blood in the Eucharist. There is no more intimate relationship possible

239 posted on 01/03/2007 6:03:07 AM PST by bornacatholic
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To: Nabber

There was only one sacrifice on the Cross. If you assert you must continually repent for eternal life, then you deny His saving work. This does not mean in any fashion that fellowship with God remains the same upon post salvation sin with respect to the continuing work of the Holy Spirit in further sanctification of the believer. The passages that stress confession after post salvation sin, refer to the believer continuing in fellowship with God through faith in Christ. They do not refer to a loss of eternal life, again and again and again, only to receive eternal life agian and again and again after confession, nor is eternal life a vacuous promise only to be found after a future Judgment. The Judgment has already occured on the Cross. Another series of judgments occur, but for the believer they are focused on the believer's eternal rewards, not grilling the believer to see if, well, maybe, just maybe, if his sins weren;t too terrible, he might just be allowed sortof to come on into heaven grudgingly.

Once saved, always saved is only anathema for the condemned who not only rebel against the mind of Christ, but who seek to counterfeit His plan with their own works independent of faith through Christ. It is the Gospel for believers.


240 posted on 01/05/2007 8:31:25 PM PST by Cvengr
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