[NYer]

Joseph Kelly, the chair of the Department of Religious Studies at John Carroll University in Cleveland, Ohio, is the author of The Origins of Christmas.

[NYer]

Possible interest to your lists.

[Armando Guerra]

See: http://www.bethlehemstar.net/

If Professor Larsen is correct, 12/25 is around the date the Magi visited the newborn Christ. The site is well researched and gives a good hypothesis as to the star. He also pinpoints the date of April 3, 33 A.D. for the crucifixion based on the sabbath correlating with Passover during Pilate's reign and there being a lunar eclipse on that date. It is very interesting stuff.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks NYer.

Many Romans venerated the sun, whose birthday was Dec. 25, or a virility god named Mithra with the same birthday. Also, the Romans observed a raucous celebration called Saturnalia Dec. 17-23. Thus, Dec. 25 offered a date with a good theological basis that also would counter several pagan holidays.

I've heard that the date of Christmas was set in Saturnalia, because there was so much going on, the surreptitious Christian gatherings wouldn't be noticed.

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[jkl1122]

This seems to be att odds with other things I have read about why December 25 is the day designated as Christ's birthday by the Roman Catholic church. So which is the real reason?

[HaveHadEnough]

I always thought Christ was born when "there were in the same country shepherds abiding in the field, keeping watch over their flock by night."

In December, the flocks aren't in the field, they're in the fold.

[xzins]

I understand there's a way to determine the approximate time of Zechariah's service in the temple.

If that's true, then one can use Elizabeth's and Mary's pregnancies to determine the approx. time of year.

I don't know enough of priestly calendars of service to be able to decipher any dates.

[FourtySeven]

Interesting.

[Uncle Chip]

Jesus was conceived circa Channukah 6 BC [the sixth month of Elizabeth's pregnancy], born circa Feast of Trumpets 5 BC, and returned from Egypt after Herod died April 1, 4 BC. If someone went back and checked, they might find that December 25 and the date of Channukah, Chislev 25, more than likely overlapped that year of 6 BC.

[PRO 1]

As one would attempt to estimate the time of Christ's birth there are a few immovable facts that must be recognized.

First, if one believes that the Gospels would contradict each other, they will never be able to arrive at an answer. They do not contradict each other, they compliment each other.

The great error many make as they read records of the birth of Christ is they make the mistake that the records of Christ's birth in Matthew are IDENTICAL to the ones in Luke. They are not. Matthew deals with a time frame shortly following Christ's birth. The key to accurately understanding this lies in the words used (greek)for "child" in Matthew.

The words used are not referring to an infant or new born. There are other words for that. Analyze Matthew 2:vs 7, and 16 carefuller and ask yourself the question, why would Herod kill children up to 2 years old if the child was a new born.

The star was not a comet or some thing glowing like a super nova. It was obvious to the "trained" or "knowledgeable" and easily missed by the ignorant. It had appeared earlier which motivated the wise men to journey to Bethlehem as Mt. 2:2&7 indicate and then appeared again as verses 9&10 indicate.

Luke deals with an entirely different time frame. He deals with the events immediately surrounding Christ's birth.

An important thing to note is that an event which just happened to be occurring at the time was that shepherds were watching their flocks by night. This activity does not occur during the month of December or any where near it. It's too cold. Flocks are kept inside during this time frame. In the east if you owned flocks, you hired out your flocks to graze and fertilize fields in the late fall after the harvest and sometimes in early spring.

In Luke the events written of occur in a manger because there was no room in the inn and the urgency of the birth necessitated the accommodating. In Matthew the wise men visit Joseph, Mary, and Jesus IN A HOUSE (different word used).

Christ was not born in December by any stretch of the imagination. When one understands the political climate by the 3rd century and that the establishment of the date was a compromise between the pagan Roman cherish and the less than stellar "true" church leadership at the time, Dec 25 begins to make sense.

By the way. It is interesting to note that one of the gods that was worshiped by the pagan Roman church was the sun god. As the days got shorter in the winter there is a point where that reverses. Guess when that is? The end of December is when the days began getting longer. So it was a pagan celebration of the "rebirth" of the sun god every year.

[narses]

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See http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm for a great discussion of the issue.

[Bramuce]

Thanks

[editor-surveyor]

"The gospel accounts of the Nativity (Matthew 1-2, Luke 1-2) do not say what day Jesus was born..."

That is a deceptive statement. No, the date is not spelled out, but sufficient information is in the gospels to determine the exact date.

First, we know that it had to be on Tabernacles, so all that has to be done is to determine the year. Also the linkage to the birth of John the Baptist can lead us to within about three or four days of his birthdate.

Dec. 25 was chosen to please the pagans, and nothing else.

[Ciexyz]

Bump for Advent joy.

[redgolum]

This whole article is funny, since there were some Catholic Freepers who were getting very bent out of shape when someone asked if Dec. 25th was the true birthday of Jesus.