Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Open to Life: Asking Protestants to Ponder Mary
CatholicExchange.com ^ | 12-07-06 | Pete Vere

Posted on 12/08/2006 4:44:04 PM PST by Salvation

Pete Vere, JCL  
Other Articles by Pete Vere, JCL
Printer Friendly Version
 
Open to Life: Asking Protestants to Ponder Mary

December 7, 2006

Like many pro-life writers, I spend my fair share of time interacting with the evangelical Protestant community. I find them zealous when it comes to combating abortion. In fact, their zeal is what usually tips me off about Christmas's approach. The first candle is barely lit on the Advent wreath when our evangelical brethren begin publishing a barrage of articles, reflections and sermons on the theme, "What if Mary had aborted Jesus?"

The question, of course, is rhetorical. One could not imagine Mother Mary aborting Baby Jesus. Such an action would have changed the course of salvation history for the worse, in that salvation would have become impossible without Christ to bridge the gap between God and man.

Thus our evangelical brethren mean no disrespect toward the Blessed Mother. They are simply pointing out the obvious: Mary was in a position not unlike that of many young single mothers, yet in choosing life, her actions greatly benefited mankind. Hence one should acknowledge that there is always the opportunity for an opening to God's grace whenever a woman finds herself with child.

Although the above argument originates from evangelical Protestants, I can accept it as a Catholic. Yet the majority of Evangelicals who I know - including those within the pro-life movement - promote contraception as permissible to Christians. Dr. Tim LaHaye, for example, is a founder of the US Moral Majority and the co-author of the popular evangelical apocalyptic Left Behind series. He is also a well-known example of an Evangelical who promotes contraception among married couples while claiming to be a pro-life Christian.

Nevertheless, whenever I encounter Evangelicals within the pro-life movement, I try to correct their erroneous view of contraception. These are often the same Evangelicals whom I watch debate abortion with mainline Protestants. I have seen them pop the "Would Mary have aborted Jesus?" argument during these intra-Protestant debates. With Christmas approaching, I knew they would be sharing reflections on our pro-life internet forum that ask the same question.

This got me thinking as we debated the morality of contraception: "What would have happened if Mary had contracepted Jesus?" The answer was obvious: the same as what evangelical Protestants propose would have happened if Mary had aborted Jesus. There would have been no Christmas morning. And without Christmas there would have been no Easter, no crucifixion and resurrection, and no salvation history. [Editor's note: The point here is not to contend that a "barrier method" would have prevented Mary conceiving Christ, but that fundamentally, contraception says "no" to God.]

 In light of the similar outcome, I thought the Evangelicals with whom I debate would see the folly of their pro-contraception position. With one exception, however, my question was met first with stunned silence and then with outrage from our evangelical brethren. How dare I suggest that contraception was forbidden to Christians. "Where does the Bible condemn contraception?"

I found this last question strange, given that during a simultaneous debate with their mainline Protestant counterparts, the same evangelicals were asking: "Where does the Bible promote abortion?" Of course this was after the mainliners had pointed out that nowhere in the King James translation does one find the word "abortion".

As an aside, this taught me a valuable lesson about Protestants. When they oppose a practice as ungodly, they ask "Where does the Bible teach this practice?" When they favor a similar practice, the question changes to, "Where does the Bible condemn this practice?" Thus the Evangelical can say, "the Bible does not condemn contraception" while the Anglican states, "the Bible makes no mention of abortion."

Some Things Really Are Abominable

To be fair to Evangelicals and to mainline Protestants, they are both wrong. Holy Scripture clearly and explicitly condemns these abominable practices against the culture of life. While you never read the words "contraception" and "abortion" in the Bible, the early Church fathers understood these practices to be sorcery and witchcraft, which are mentioned.

The noted Jesuit catechist Fr. John A. Hardon, in his essay "Contraception: Fatal to the Faith and to Eternal Life," wrote:

In the Roman Empire of the first century of the Christian era, contraception was universally approved and practiced by the people.... In the language of the day, contraceptive practice was referred to as "using magic" and "using drugs." It was in this sense that the first century Teaching of the Twelve Apostles [Didiche] warns Christians in four successive precepts: "You shall not use magic." "You shall not use drugs." "You shall not procure abortion." "You shall not destroy an unborn child."

"The sequence of those prohibitions is significant," Father Hardon continues. "We know from the record of those times that women would first try some magical rites or use sorcery to avoid conception. If this failed, they would take one or another of then known seventeen medically approved contraceptives. If a woman still became pregnant, she would try to abort. And if even this failed, she and her male partner could always resort to infanticide, which was approved by Roman law."

"Christians were warned not to follow the example of their pagan contemporaries, who walked in darkness and the shadow of death," Father Hardon concludes. "Christians were absolutely forbidden to practice contraception, which leads to abortion, which leads to infanticide."

Not surprising, as Catholics prepare to celebrate the birth of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Church of England, to quote one Anglican news source, "has joined one of Britain's royal medical colleges in calling for legal euthanasia of seriously disabled newborn babies...." This is the same Anglican Church that first accepted contraception as permissible to Christians. The rest of Protestantism soon followed. The Anglican Church then accepted abortion under certain extreme circumstances, and for the most part Protestantism has followed.

So where would we be if Mary had practiced contraception? As we prepare for Advent and the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ - as we prepare to celebrate the Gift that came through Mary's openness to life - I ask my evangelical Protestant brethren to ponder this question.



TOPICS: Catholic; Charismatic Christian; Evangelical Christian; Mainline Protestant
KEYWORDS: abortion; anglican; blessedvirginmary; catholic; catholiclist; christmas; contraception; cultureoflife; evangelical; prolife; protestant
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 141-150 next last
To: Marysecretary

Mary intercedes for us, just like she interceded for the couple who ran out of wine at their wedding feast that went on for a week.

Have you forgotten that Holy Scripture?

She told the waiters, "Do as he says."

That's all -- Do as HE says -- the emphasis is on Christ, not on Mary.


81 posted on 12/09/2006 10:54:25 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: EternalHope

**Speaking from the Protestant side of the aisle, I would like to thank the Catholic Church of today for doing a much better job of holding the line for true faith than almost all of the "main line" Protestant churches. **

Thanks.

**On the Catholic side of the aisle, it would be nice to see a little less hyper-sensitivity.**

Not hyper-sensitivity, I think it's just that we get tired of the Catholic bashing and weary of defending the truth as promulgated by Christ himself through the Catholic Church. Remember Christ gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter and Peter was the first Pope.


82 posted on 12/09/2006 10:58:21 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: EternalHope

**But I have learned not to post (this thread being a perhaps ill advised exception). The simple fact that I am a Protestant has led many Catholics to ask me to go away, regardless of what I may have to say.**

Don't you think that sometimes, it's the attitude with which things are said/posted.

I usually try to be nice, bur after awhile, I can come out with guns blazing, so to speak.


83 posted on 12/09/2006 11:02:37 PM PST by Salvation (†With God all things are possible.†)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 70 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Submission to the will of God is not consent. Consent is asked for, submission is forced or commanded. Therefore, no, she did not have the CHOICE to give consent. The angel of the Lord said "You WILL..." not "Could you?" or "Would you?".

Your argument is similar to the Synergistic salvation the Catholics believe in. A Catholic helped by the Spirit does good works, just as you are arguing that Mary cooperated with God to give birth to the Savior.

Mary's cooperation would count as the best of all good works, as she brought the Savior to the world, oh, and God did His part too.

My Works got me forgiven for any Mortal sins I have committed, and took time off my stay in Purgatory, and yes, Jesus and the Spirit helped, thanks to Mary's prayers for me.

I did my part and God did His; The same thing that the Mormon says. That is what it sounds like to this Reformed ear.


(Spaces inserted for easier quoting for rebuttals.)


84 posted on 12/10/2006 7:16:23 AM PST by Ottofire (O great God of highest heaven, Glorify Your Name through me)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 78 | View Replies]

To: Ottofire
Mary had to give consent...otherwise God forced Himself upon her, and I don't think anyone wants to go there.

God gave us free will for a reason. Especially when it comes to the Incarnation, He would not bypass a person's free will. This is the beauty of Mary, she was so attuned to God's will that she fully embraced His role for her in humanity's salvation.
85 posted on 12/10/2006 12:09:11 PM PST by mockingbyrd (Good heavens! What women these Christians have-----Libanus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 84 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Thank you. I think that the stance against birth control by the catholic church(is is still official?) is a BIG plus and evidence of wisdom.... oral 'contraception' is chemical abortion (I was an embryologist and researcher prior to my doctoral studies)and not only do the protestants allow it, they silently promote it.


86 posted on 12/10/2006 12:10:42 PM PST by Captain Gates
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 79 | View Replies]

To: Captain Gates
Thank you. I think that the stance against birth control by the catholic church(is is still official?) is a BIG plus and evidence of wisdom

It's still official, as much as certain laity and clerics want to undermine it. Oh, by the way, welcome to FR!

87 posted on 12/10/2006 12:13:28 PM PST by Pyro7480 ("Give me an army saying the Rosary and I will conquer the world." - Pope Blessed Pius IX)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 86 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Lotsa food for thought here.
Here's something: My (now ex)husband and I were using both foam and a diaphram one summer August night; those things each have a failure rate of 3%. I think you can fill in the blanks.... hee hee. Well, our oldest daughter just graduated college yesterday, best "mistake" of my life! I have always told her that "God MEANT for you to be born!" The Almighty laughs at our puny attempts sometimes.


88 posted on 12/10/2006 1:02:13 PM PST by PandaRosaMishima (she who tends the Nightunicorn; who is glosser of Titanic's wings)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 34 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

Christ was always in the OT and He and God and the Holy Spirit work as one in the trinity. He was always there. I don't know what you're ranting about. I'm saying God through Jesus Christ is the one who answers prayer, not Mary and not the Saints. ONLY GOD. I'm not keen on Mary's visions. I don't know if they are real or satanic in nature. I have no knowledge of them. But only God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit answer our prayers. They are the three-in-one. Mary has no power to do that. Sorry. I know that's what you are taught but I believe that it's GOD, not Mary, much as she is respected for her obedience to God. She's not a miracle worker.


89 posted on 12/10/2006 8:36:10 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 80 | View Replies]

To: Salvation

That's a little different than Mary interceding for US in prayer. No, I haven't forgotten that scripture. I interpret it differently than you do.


90 posted on 12/10/2006 8:37:17 PM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 81 | View Replies]

To: Ottofire
"...and does not give blessings or intercede for us."

Not if you don't ask.

91 posted on 12/11/2006 9:34:27 AM PST by Romish_Papist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 38 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary
"Mary may pray for us, but only God through His son, Jesus Christ, answers those prayers." That is Catholic theology. You must be the one Protestant who gets it. I applaud you.
92 posted on 12/11/2006 9:40:45 AM PST by Romish_Papist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 67 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary
"...and a lot of Catholics believe she's got the same power as Jesus has."

Never met a Catholic who believes that. Not even close.

"She was his blessed mother and she doesn't answer our prayers or intercedes on our behalf..."

You just said in your previous post that "Mary may pray for us..." That IS intercession.

93 posted on 12/11/2006 9:42:42 AM PST by Romish_Papist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 68 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary
"But only God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit answer our prayers. They are the three-in-one. Mary has no power to do that. Sorry. I know that's what you are taught..."

You presume to know quite a lot about what we're taught, don't you? For the record, we are NOT taught that Mary has the power to do that. Intercessory prayer. That's it. The answer comes from God/Christ/Holy Spirit. Mary can and does pray (intercede) for us if we ask her to, but the results come only from the Triune God.

94 posted on 12/11/2006 9:51:06 AM PST by Romish_Papist
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 89 | View Replies]

To: Romish_Papist

Catholics believe she does pray for us but protestants believe only God, through His son, Jesus Christ, actually has the power to answer them.


95 posted on 12/11/2006 11:39:19 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 93 | View Replies]

To: Romish_Papist

Well, Papist, the Bible indicates that Jesus is our intercessor. If Catholics believe it's Mary, then so be it. Protestants don't. We believe it's Jesus who is our interecessor.


96 posted on 12/11/2006 11:40:35 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: Romish_Papist

My husband and our former pastor were Catholics so I have some idea of what THEY were taught. Perhaps not all Catholics are but some have been.


97 posted on 12/11/2006 11:41:37 AM PST by Marysecretary (GOD IS STILL IN CONTROL.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 94 | View Replies]

To: Diva

The Trinity is vitally important, and I think few people (including Catholics nowadays) understand this. I congratulate you on making this point!

I was giving a talk on St. Patrick to a group of Catholics a few days ago and I mentioned the fact that Patrick preached about the Trinity and that he preached against Pelagianism. One of the small group seemed a little confused about the Trinity, and several of them could not understand what was wrong with Pelagianism (the doctrine that rejects original sin and grace and thinks we are saved by following a virtuous example - it's based on Stoic philosophy).

I think we need major doctrinal work here in the Church!

Aside from that, yes, you're right about Mary. I liked the movie The Nativity, btw, because I thought it was a Protestant - but heavily Catholic influenced and very correct - meditation on Our Lady and the Nativity. And that's the thing that is going to bring a lot of Protestants back to the Church, as their own churches become less and less Trinitarian, more Pelagian, and less Marian.


98 posted on 12/11/2006 12:00:17 PM PST by livius
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 51 | View Replies]

To: Ottofire
And in the translation, the Greek word translated as UNTIL is used consistently as such in all other instances of the word in the scripture. Unless you are trying to force the Greek to fit your doctrine, in which case you are now firmly in the same boat with the Mormons and the JWs.

St. Jerome already rebutted this question about 1700 years ago.

99 posted on 12/11/2006 1:19:01 PM PST by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 63 | View Replies]

To: Marysecretary
If Catholics believe it's Mary, then so be it. Protestants don't

Entirely wrong on this point.

100 posted on 12/11/2006 1:20:33 PM PST by frogjerk (REUTERS: We give smoke and mirrors a bad name)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 96 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-20 ... 61-8081-100101-120 ... 141-150 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson