Posted on 12/08/2006 4:44:04 PM PST by Salvation
Mary intercedes for us, just like she interceded for the couple who ran out of wine at their wedding feast that went on for a week.
Have you forgotten that Holy Scripture?
She told the waiters, "Do as he says."
That's all -- Do as HE says -- the emphasis is on Christ, not on Mary.
**Speaking from the Protestant side of the aisle, I would like to thank the Catholic Church of today for doing a much better job of holding the line for true faith than almost all of the "main line" Protestant churches. **
Thanks.
**On the Catholic side of the aisle, it would be nice to see a little less hyper-sensitivity.**
Not hyper-sensitivity, I think it's just that we get tired of the Catholic bashing and weary of defending the truth as promulgated by Christ himself through the Catholic Church. Remember Christ gave the keys to the kingdom to Peter and Peter was the first Pope.
**But I have learned not to post (this thread being a perhaps ill advised exception). The simple fact that I am a Protestant has led many Catholics to ask me to go away, regardless of what I may have to say.**
Don't you think that sometimes, it's the attitude with which things are said/posted.
I usually try to be nice, bur after awhile, I can come out with guns blazing, so to speak.
Submission to the will of God is not consent. Consent is asked for, submission is forced or commanded. Therefore, no, she did not have the CHOICE to give consent. The angel of the Lord said "You WILL..." not "Could you?" or "Would you?".
Your argument is similar to the Synergistic salvation the Catholics believe in. A Catholic helped by the Spirit does good works, just as you are arguing that Mary cooperated with God to give birth to the Savior.
Mary's cooperation would count as the best of all good works, as she brought the Savior to the world, oh, and God did His part too.
My Works got me forgiven for any Mortal sins I have committed, and took time off my stay in Purgatory, and yes, Jesus and the Spirit helped, thanks to Mary's prayers for me.
I did my part and God did His; The same thing that the Mormon says. That is what it sounds like to this Reformed ear.
(Spaces inserted for easier quoting for rebuttals.)
Thank you. I think that the stance against birth control by the catholic church(is is still official?) is a BIG plus and evidence of wisdom.... oral 'contraception' is chemical abortion (I was an embryologist and researcher prior to my doctoral studies)and not only do the protestants allow it, they silently promote it.
It's still official, as much as certain laity and clerics want to undermine it. Oh, by the way, welcome to FR!
Lotsa food for thought here.
Here's something: My (now ex)husband and I were using both foam and a diaphram one summer August night; those things each have a failure rate of 3%. I think you can fill in the blanks.... hee hee. Well, our oldest daughter just graduated college yesterday, best "mistake" of my life! I have always told her that "God MEANT for you to be born!" The Almighty laughs at our puny attempts sometimes.
Christ was always in the OT and He and God and the Holy Spirit work as one in the trinity. He was always there. I don't know what you're ranting about. I'm saying God through Jesus Christ is the one who answers prayer, not Mary and not the Saints. ONLY GOD. I'm not keen on Mary's visions. I don't know if they are real or satanic in nature. I have no knowledge of them. But only God, His Son, and the Holy Spirit answer our prayers. They are the three-in-one. Mary has no power to do that. Sorry. I know that's what you are taught but I believe that it's GOD, not Mary, much as she is respected for her obedience to God. She's not a miracle worker.
That's a little different than Mary interceding for US in prayer. No, I haven't forgotten that scripture. I interpret it differently than you do.
Not if you don't ask.
Never met a Catholic who believes that. Not even close.
"She was his blessed mother and she doesn't answer our prayers or intercedes on our behalf..."
You just said in your previous post that "Mary may pray for us..." That IS intercession.
You presume to know quite a lot about what we're taught, don't you? For the record, we are NOT taught that Mary has the power to do that. Intercessory prayer. That's it. The answer comes from God/Christ/Holy Spirit. Mary can and does pray (intercede) for us if we ask her to, but the results come only from the Triune God.
Catholics believe she does pray for us but protestants believe only God, through His son, Jesus Christ, actually has the power to answer them.
Well, Papist, the Bible indicates that Jesus is our intercessor. If Catholics believe it's Mary, then so be it. Protestants don't. We believe it's Jesus who is our interecessor.
My husband and our former pastor were Catholics so I have some idea of what THEY were taught. Perhaps not all Catholics are but some have been.
The Trinity is vitally important, and I think few people (including Catholics nowadays) understand this. I congratulate you on making this point!
I was giving a talk on St. Patrick to a group of Catholics a few days ago and I mentioned the fact that Patrick preached about the Trinity and that he preached against Pelagianism. One of the small group seemed a little confused about the Trinity, and several of them could not understand what was wrong with Pelagianism (the doctrine that rejects original sin and grace and thinks we are saved by following a virtuous example - it's based on Stoic philosophy).
I think we need major doctrinal work here in the Church!
Aside from that, yes, you're right about Mary. I liked the movie The Nativity, btw, because I thought it was a Protestant - but heavily Catholic influenced and very correct - meditation on Our Lady and the Nativity. And that's the thing that is going to bring a lot of Protestants back to the Church, as their own churches become less and less Trinitarian, more Pelagian, and less Marian.
St. Jerome already rebutted this question about 1700 years ago.
Entirely wrong on this point.
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