Democrats...you must be related to Pat Roberston...Murdoch...? :)
I just equate the goats to the reprobate. They are forever slaves to sin and do turn to satan.
According to Reformed theology they do turn to satan because they have no other choice. They were predestined by this selective deity before all ages to not be able to turn to him.
And if this deity (because it's not the God I know) is not partial, as you say, it must have made the choices at random! So now we have an enee, menee, minee, mo approach to salvation...
Amen to Dr. E's answer. Lord, when it comes to me, impose your socks off! :)
Cute. But what Dr E tried to prove is doubtful and unbiblical. She conveniently left out v. 5 that changes the meaning of her whole "imposition" interpretation. And v. 2 of the same Psalm makes it clear that all men come to God. Read it!
Southern Baptists follow a believer's baptism, not an "adult" baptism. It is commonplace for children under 10 to be baptized in our church
Why not at the age of 5, or 2 or infants? Who decides what is the 'right' age? Dr. E's church does infant baptism; she may be able to tell you.
Are you kidding? Compared to God we don't even rate to the level of morons. We are less than toddlers.
That kind of humility would be great were it not obvious, nonetheless He made us in His image and likeness (the latter we lost), so that would not bide very well for His central creation, namely man.
It's like someone calling his moron a moron. It says a lot a bout the husband who chose her. You are saying God either made us trash or allowed us to become trash.
The objective suicidal stupidity of the sinner knows no bounds
I guess that's okay; God let them get that way, right? Sort of like your playing-in-the-traffic example. Out of five kids you'd let four play in the traffic and keep your 'favorite' one (the elect) to yourself.
How many OT stories have you read and just wound up shaking your head?
Tons. Over and over.
There was God, right in front of them telling them what to do, and they blew it
Well, we are not perfect, by design, or neglect, whichever you prefer, not by fault (using Reformed theology logic). Can't blame a dog for bing a dog, right?
Without God we are completely helpless
We are helpless regardless, according to the Reformed theology. God already decided what's going to happen with all of us, so no amount of praying, crying or reading will change that.
For the 100th time (and I've enjoyed every one) ALL MEN WOULD TURN TO SATAN because ALL MEN ARE FALLEN CREATURES unless and until God grabs them and gives them new eyes to see Him, new ears to hear Him and a new heart to love Him.
This is Scripture, Kosta. We didn't make it up. It's the story of the Old Testament which tells us we cannot keep the Law ourselves and we cannot pay for our own sins. By our own sins we will perish BECAUSE THE NATURAL MAN HATES GOD and loathes His Law and is incapable of pleasing Him.
Gloriously, the New Testament tells us that God decided from before time to forgive some men's sins by the sacrifice of His Son. Those men can do nothing to merit this salvation; only God Himself is equal to the penalty. But like Paul, we praise Him who turned us from the darkness to the light and "revealed His Son in us"...
To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him" -- Galatians 1:15-16"But when it pleased God, who separated me from my mother's womb, and called me by his grace,
We do not know why God chooses as He does, but Scripture is clear that He does choose, according to His good pleasure. If a man possesses Trinitarian faith in Jesus Christ, he can be confident His name was written in the Book of Life by God for His glory. God wants His Christian soldiers confident and well-equipped for the battles on earth.
v. 2 of the same Psalm makes it clear that all men come to God. Read it!
Alright, let's read it.
Iniquities prevail against me: as for our transgressions, thou shalt purge them away. Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple. By terrible things in righteousness wilt thou answer us, O God of our salvation; who art the confidence of all the ends of the earth, and of them that are afar off upon the sea" -- Psalm 65:2-5"O thou that hearest prayer, unto thee shall all flesh come.
Are you seriously using these verses to assert universal redemption? Are you a Unitarian? Certainly "all flesh" will end up at the foot of Christ in judgment. But not all will have acknowledged Him as Lord and thus some will perish. Or else we need to erase about 50% of the Bible.
Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences." -- 2 Corinthians 5:10-11"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
If you have Christ within you, do you need fear His wrath? Or are we to...
"...come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." -- Hebrews 4:16
we are not perfect, by design, or neglect, whichever you prefer, not by fault (using Reformed theology logic). Can't blame a dog for being a dog, right?
"Can the Ethiopian change his skin, or the leopard his spots?" -- Jeremiah 13:23
We are helpless regardless, according to the Reformed theology. God already decided what's going to happen with all of us, so no amount of praying, crying or reading will change that.
Those who pray and cry and read and want to change will do so because it is by the will of God. All who believe in Him will find safe haven.
And all who don't believe in Him will not want to believe in Him and therefore suffer the consequences.
As far as baptism goes, Reformed of all persuasions do not believe in the error of baptismal regeneration. We all believe our baptism as adopted children is a sign and seal of God's grace given to those who are His. Like the Lord's Supper, our baptism brings us closer to Him.
God's grace through faith in Jesus Christ is a gift, given to whom He wills for His own perfect reasons.
If you want to understand Reformed theology and the truth in Scripture, it is succinctly contained in the following verses...
Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Ephesians 2:4-10"But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us,
That doesn't follow. God does everything with a purpose:
Rom 8:28-30 : 28 And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. 29 For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified.
I don't know why God picks Fred but not Frank, but there is a reason. To think otherwise would be to diminish the power of His will and sovereignty.
Why not [baptize] at the age of 5, or 2 or infants? Who decides what is the 'right' age?
To Baptists, the right age varies from person to person. It is that age at which someone is able to give at least a rudimentary testimony, evidencing faith. The earliest I have ever witnessed was at age 6.
And Dr. E. is absolutely right when she says: "As far as baptism goes, Reformed of all persuasions do not believe in the error of baptismal regeneration. We all believe our baptism as adopted children is a sign and seal of God's grace given to those who are His. Like the Lord's Supper, our baptism brings us closer to Him." Baptism is very important, but it is not salvific.
It's like someone calling his moron a moron. It says a lot about the husband who chose her. You are saying God either made us trash or allowed us to become trash.
I don't think it's the same thing. I would agree with you if we were comparing humans with other humans. But we are not. God is so much higher that there really is no truly accurate comparison. The point remains that for "father-child", we would have to be seen as helpless young children, not grown adults.
We are helpless regardless, according to the Reformed theology. God already decided what's going to happen with all of us, so no amount of praying, crying or reading will change that.
That's right, no amount of works will save us. However, we are not helpless as believers. When the Spirit indwells, we actually have access to a great deal of power, including the power of the word.
Rom 8:31 : 31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us , who can be against us?