Posted on 12/04/2006 7:52:47 PM PST by Pyro7480
Do women preach in your church?
1Cr 14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but [they are commanded] to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
1Cr 14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
1Cr 14:36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
1Cr 14:37 If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord.
But we still have a mind. We are not entirely driven by the body as the animals are. But we cannot condemn that which is carnal and without the nous. Because carnal, although sinful in that it is alien to God, in absence of a nous is innocent.
Thus babies and children and animals are not held accountable for their acts. One can be sinful only if he or she intentionally gives in to carnal impulses when he or she knows and understands that it is morally wrong.
God created man to be a rational and moral being. Only those who are capable of being rational and moral but choose otherwise are guilty of sin.
Well, your question was about appearance of worship. Did you ask me if Mary is God or if a statue or an icon is God I would have answered, again without parsing words, with a simple No.
A Catholic worships by offering sacrifice. Not by kneeling, prostrating, standing on the head or hopping around on one leg. This is why we go to Mass. When you see us offering the consecrated host to Mary, by all means, knock us dead.
Annalex, you shouldn't speak of Calvin unless you have read him.
Did you ask me -> Had you asked me
I have read what Dr. Eckleburg posts, many of them on the Erasmus thread. I think he is an intriguing philosopher of religion, but a third rate theologian because of the general disregard for the scripture. That passage was typical of his method: he takes off from the scripture but he only sees in it what fits his philosophy of God.
Unless you have actually taken the time to look up Calvin (His institutes are online), you should say this or that about him. You need to see for yourself.
Might I make the same request for yourself with regard to Orthodoxy; hit up a parish and see for yourself.
Only in your mind. Prove it! Reference those organizations which follow you as a prophet. Let's see. For someone who is a prophet of God you sure have a lot of time on your hands to spend on FR rather than devoting it all to God and His word.
And with all your education you are either not working or your are surfing FR while at work. (before you say something abut me, I am happily retired after 21 years of military service; I have no bills and all the time in the world).
Says who?
I do! Was +Paul a Christian before he was "struck?" What made him an inerrant apostle of God was not his education and bible reading, Blogger.
His instant conversion from a persecutor and ignroant person when it came to Christ to an inerrant teacher of Christ's message is what earned +Paul the suspcion of Gnosticism (along with his very Gnostic choice of words), becuase it was an infusion of gnosis, but apparently it took that kind of a person to save the dying Church in Israel, by speading the faith to all nations.
Terrific post. Thanks for jumping in, with work right now I'm just in and out too quickly.
It seems to be an old pattern I've only recently come to recognize. Claims are made such as "Protestant beliefs have only been around since the Reformation",or "we created the Canon of Scripture" as though they are fact even though the historical record is clear that these claims are false.
I said I have the gift of prophecy. I did not say I was a prophet. There is a difference.
My working arrangements are none of your business. What my employer allows and doesn't is not your business either.
You said that a prophet didn't need to study. Paul spent YEARS studying before launching into full-time ministry.
My words are being wasted on you. I quoted from Daniel. I quoted from Hebrews. You say whatever is on the top of your head as long as it disagrees with what I am saying.
So...Kosta, WHATEVER.
Proestant beleifs are pretty uniquely western in origin and practice.
Do you prohpesize? Do you consider yourself a prophet?
Truly I see much of the great Greek philosophers in the writing of the Scriptures after Christ became enfleshed, the term "Logos" for example.
In that regard I do not consider it an accident - but God's hand – that Alexander the Great “normalized” the Greek language. It improved communications throughout the civilized world and enabled the rapid spread of the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ.
And of course, Alexander – who was prophesied by Daniel - was the student of Aristotle who was the student of Plato – and thus we should not be amazed to see all of these historical word images converge in the language of the New Testament.
BTW, Justin Martyr emphasized the particular benefit of Plato’s philosophy, which was ultimately supplanted in his life when he became Christian – and he also noted that Plato had gathered some of his understanding from studying Jewish texts when he was in Egypt (as I recall.) He also noted the prophetic nature of some of his writings vis-à-vis Jesus and the cross.
Nevertheless, Paul was clearly a Jew – and not just any, but specifically chosen by Christ and one very, very, very well educated in the law and the prophets.
Thus when we read Romans 8 – I assert that we should keep that in mind as well. And when we do, we see that the Jewish understanding and the word images expressed in the Greek language reconcile beautifully together – and also with the revelation of God through Creation (Psalms 19, Romans 1:20)
Prophecize isn't a word. I have not claimed to be a prophet. A prophet is a specific area of ministry/vocation. To exercise the gift of prophecy means to speak the Word of God with boldness. Elijah was a prophet who prophesied. He looked at Ahab and boldly proclaimed what God told him to say. I do not have direct personal revelation, but the Spirit has worked within me to boldly proclaim the Word of God towards given situations. Vocationally, I do not claim to be a prophet. But I do claim the gift of prophecy.
Can you define what this gift entails?
Yuppper! By all means. The Orthodox too!
Last time I checked, we venerate the flag. I don't think anyone who kisses the flag or stands facing the flag when the naitonal anthem is played is "worshipping" the flag, or the nation, any more than hostages returning home kiss the ground are worshipping the earth.
Do people worship kings and queens when they kneel in front of them? Do we worship judges when we stand as they walk in and out? Do we worship our dead when we pay respetc to them at the gravesite and pray for their souls?
Anyone suggesting that Apostolic Church worships Mary speaks from ignorance as was the case with epiklesis, charging that the preist is an alchemist. Such obsurdity is possible only if one never bothers to study the issue but merely jumps to conclusions based on their perception. Imagine, the Church practiced 'alchemy' for 2,000 years and didn't know it!?
See the previous post.
In my background the difference between slander and error is knowledge and intention. An ignorant person might say something untrue in error, while a person who is informed would say the same thing but in that case it would be a lie. (This, interestingly is a distinction which is too subtle for Democrats.) Persisting in ignorance is also culpable, but that's another matter.
Similarly the difference between bowing down TO and idol and bowing down in the neighborhood of one while praying NOT to the idol but to God or a saint are importantly different activities. If painted wood were the problem we'd all have to go outdoors to pray, and make sure no painted would or dressed stone was in our line of sight.
If you see no difference between "before" and "to" then do you check around to/before make sure there's no painted wood nearby before/to you kneel to/before tie your shoelaces? How far away from painted wood does one have to/before be before/to it's safe? And would avoiding painted wood count as a "work"?
Somebody said "rend your hearts and not your garments," and others have cautioned against too great a reliance on appearances. But I understand you to say that one shouldn't take people's words seriously so maybe they meant we SHOULD pay attention to appearances and rend our garments and not our hearts. It would be "parsing" to/before pay too close attention to/before words like "genetic", "alchemical", or "materialistically". Once "material" means "immaterial" we have left discourse far, far behind.Is what they really mean, "I don't LIKE it! Make it STOP!"
In fact why let any meaning at all interfere with condemnation of those with whom we disagree? Let's just all give Howard Dean screams. No need for reason, thought, charity, or care -- just pure feeling. Not my cup of tea, but to/before each his or her as the case may be own.
"The Lord's Prayer says "Thy kingdom come..." It means the Kingdom is not here"
That's one kosta, I'll give you that but raise you:
Mark 1:15, John the Baptist, "The Kingdom of God is at hand."
Matt. 3:2, "Kingdom of Heaven is at hand".
Matt 10:7, "The Kingdom of Heaven is at hand".
Matt. 12:28, "Kingdom of god has come unto you".
Luke 11:20, "Kingdom of God is come upon you".
Luke 17:21, "Kingdom of God is within you".
It is the old "realm"-"reign" question. With the exception of verses 11, 12, of what present value is all the blessings if one has to wait until he/she dies to be comforted, inherit the earth, filled,obtain mercy,see God,know that you are a child of God? Jesus says consider the lilies...the Father knows our needs now. For the child of God, the Kingdom is already within and operative for him/her and ultimately will be evidenced in all of the new recreation in the eschaton.
Matt. 5:
3Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall be comforted.
5 Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.
6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.
10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
12 Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
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