Posted on 11/26/2006 10:39:52 PM PST by Gamecock
I am much obliged to Bruce Delay, a talk-show host at KFAQ 1170 in Tulsa, Oklahoma, for downloading the audio version of Rick Warren's YouTube video, recorded while in Syria.
Now, keep in mind, Warren has been telling the world he was misquoted by the Syrian press when he extolled the virtues of the totalitarian police state.
But before anyone questioned his statements, Warren's Saddleback Church had recorded him as he strolled down a Damascus street explaining what a peaceful and tolerant place Syria really is.
As soon as I hotlinked to the YouTube video last week and questioned Rick Warren about it, the church yanked it. I didn't have time to download a copy, but, thankfully, one johnny-on-the-spot talk-show host did.
You may not be able to see it, but you can at least hear it. Here is a word-for-word transcript of what Warren said in the 50-second video:
"Syria's a place that has Muslims and Christians living together for 1,400 years. So it's a lot more peaceful, honestly, than a lot of other places because Christians were here first.
"In fact, you know Saul of Tarsus – Saul was a Syrian. St. Paul, on the road to Damascus, had his conversion experience and so Christians have been here the longest, and they get along with the Muslims and the Muslims get along with them. There's a lot less tension than in other places.
"It's a moderate country, and the official government rule and position is not to allow any extremism of any kind."
It's not a press release from the Syrian government that Rick Warren can deny. He didn't make these remarks under duress. He spoke these words of his own free will. By the way, this audio clip is not taken out of context. It represents the entire content of what Rick Warren and his team produced, posted on YouTube, then removed once I linked to it and questioned him about it in an e-mail.
It's not a case of someone twisting his words. Rather, it's a case of twisted ideas expressed in words.
Let's analyze this statement carefully.
When Warren suggests Christians were in Syria first, he's certainly forgetting the progenitor of monotheism – Judaism. He rightly claims Saul as a Syrian. But Saul was not a Christian. He was a Jew until that Damascus road conversion. It's not a technicality. It is more than worth noting that someone who praises Syria, one of the most viciously anti-Semitic regimes in the world, claims Christians, not Jews, were there first.
Then Warren moves into this Muslim-Christian brotherhood sophistry. The only way Christians get along with Muslims in an officially Muslim country is by accepting the role in Islam known as "dhimmi." Think of the dhimmi life as religious apartheid. It's a good analogy. Christians are not free to evangelize Muslims. In a civil dispute between a Muslim and a Christian, the Christian's word is worth less than nothing.
Rick Warren demonstrates his complete ignorance of the subtle repression Christians face in the role of dhimmi. Perhaps he hasn't been briefed on the phenomenon by the Council on Foreign Relations, from which he claims his expertise on the Middle East.
Again, Warren neglects even to mention the Jews – the pathetically small community of Jews in Syria who have historically been subjected to barbaric pogroms to keep its members in line and to give the average Syrian Muslim an artificial feeling of superiority.
Less tension? Let me explain how Warren's buddy, dictator Bashar Assad, manages to keep peace and tranquility. Secret police. Wiretapping. Torture. Political prisoners. Death squads.
Bashar's father, Hafez, was the master at heavy-handed Big Brother tactics. When the citizens of Hama rose up to challenge his authority in February 1982, Assad sent in Syrian troops to massacre between 10,000 and 25,000 civilians. The town was paved over and marked permanently to ensure that others would learn the terrible lesson.
It worked. There's been "peace," as Rick Warren would call it, ever since. There's been a lot less "tension," as he would put it.
Lastly, Rick Warren says: "It's a moderate country, and the official government rule and position is not to allow any extremism of any kind."
Where does one even begin answering such a lie?
True, the Assads simply crush any extremism that threatens their tyrannical rule. But Syria plays ball with the terrorists by allowing them to use Syria – and neighboring Lebanon – as staging grounds under the proviso they do not subvert the Assad regime. That's why Syria serves as the headquarters for more terrorist organizations than any other country in the world – yet experiences little of its own.
My goal is not to beat a dead horse with Rick Warren's trip to Syria. My goal is to bring understanding and truth to an issue that has been perversely distorted by Rick Warren.
And I have to note that Rick Warren has been deceitful about the nature of this trip and the content of his statements from the beginning. Last week, after I first challenged him about the trip, he denied making any statements like this. He claimed his words were misrepresented by the Syrian government. When I asked him if he made any recordings while there that could help clear his name, he said he did not.
Yet, not only did he indeed record something, but what he recorded affirms the essence of what the Syrian government claimed Warren told officials. Warren's church posted that recording on YouTube and pulled it down only after it was cited as evidence of his mischievous activities in Syria.
In other words, Rick Warren seems to want to be everything to everyone. He seems to want to please the whole world – everyone, that is, except the voiceless victims of tyranny, anti-Christian persecution and anti-Jewish bigotry in Syria.
No for two reasons: first you used the word "false teacher" not me- that is a straw man on your part; second, is Farrah is trying to point out some big conspiracy with Warren, his history with conspiracies is not too good. If you don't believe me, I have some friezed dried Y2K food I would like to sell you.
Not something that one would want to attempt to say quickly or multiple times.
"To: alpha-8-25-02
P.M.,PLEASE DO NOT SUPPORT R.W.,YOU ARE MUCH SMARTER THEN THAT.
I don't "support" Rick Warren. Quite frankly I think he is an idiot. But I don't believe he is worthy of a ping list. He has jumped the shark and is engaged in some very questionable political causes and religious traditions.
I think he gets too much attention. I also think that he has become a boogeyman of sorts among many here at Free Republic. He wrote a book. He started a fad. The book will burn and the fad will fade. The mission of the Church will be undaunted and Christ will be glorified regardless of what Rick Warren does.
Please, don't start a ping list.
38 posted on 11/27/2006 12:50:09 PM PST by P-Marlowe (LPFOKETT GAHCOEEP-w/o*)
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FOR THIS TIME,I AGREE WITH MARLOWE!
"To: alpha-8-25-02
Did they put it in writing for you to teach at saddleback with no bible's allowed?
I have a hard time believing that..
Not that I don't believe you Alpha; but No bibles in a Recovery class?
What was it a Recovery from? Christianity?
43 posted on 11/27/2006 1:51:42 PM PST by Rightly Biased (Courage is not the lack of fear it is acting in spite of it<><)
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I NEVER TEACH WITHOUT MY SWORD,THOUGH WARREN'S TEACHER'S GUIDES ADVISE AGAINST IT!
2 Timothy 3:16
All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness,
2 Timothy 3:17
that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.
2 Timothy 4:1
I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at His appearing and His kingdom:
2 Timothy 4:2
Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching.
2 Timothy 4:3
For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;
2 Timothy 4:4
and they will turn their ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.
2 Timothy 4:5
But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.
(NKJV)
7 SOLAS!
Our church just began its first "Purpose Driven Life" class. The instructions are to bring the book and not the Bible. The congregation was told "they won't be needed for this class."
Was there a "Cry Havok! and Let Loose the Dogs of War(ren)?"
(sorry)
Purpose Driven Drivel. The purpose is to drive God out of the church. Gah!
The instructions are to bring the book and not the Bible. The congregation was told "they won't be needed for this class."
You'll be taking it anyway I trust, if ye be going at all.
No, we're skipping the course and spending our time sampling other Presbyterian churches. 8~)
Here is something I found that addresses this subject:
http://fide-o.blogspot.com/2006/11/right-wrong-or-indifferent-truth-about.html#links
Always good to get both sides of the subject, (even if Rick Warren is just a ear tickling preacher)
Nope, we do have a First Amendment, and it protects bone-headed opinions that are articulated as well as smarter ones. Aside from that, Warren properly informed the Department of State of his trip. He's not saying anything different than many Democrats and 'moderate' Republicans in congress.
FWIW, i think the man is foolish, should NOT be held up as an example of a Christian Pastor, and needs to get a refund for his time in Seminary.
Well, I thought the same thing about Jane Fonda in Hanoi. But what do I know? I thought we were in a war.
From Sola Scriptura to Hula Worship venue.
The sad thing here is just a year or so ago those of us who cried out against the PDL method were decried as being against evangelism or jealous of Warren because he was "successful."
Now those who were critical of us are turning their backs on Warren in droves.
"You've got to stand for something, or you'll fall for anything." Aaron Tippin
I'd say a mixture of all of those "simple", stupid, devious and greedy.
I just can't wait to hear him describe North Korea. He's got a trip scheduled there, next year. Bet ya he'll say their nice people or "moderates" too.
We weren't in a war there...unless you were wearing a uniform, and were one of the guys who bled. i believe that Vietnam was called a 'police action' (a nice term to use when you don't want to call something a war).
We aren't in any sort of conflict with Syria. American Soldiers aren't dying there. Last time we were in a conflict involving Syria, it was a nominal allie (Desert Shield/Storm). Haffez Assad and Saddaam hated each other bitterly...funny, they were both Baathists.
Here's another one appropriate for this thread:
The Path of Least Resistance makes men and rivers run crooked.
Put on the full armor of God that you may be able to stand in the day of evil.
~Ephesians 6
Just before I had my name removed from the membership role at the Southern Baptist church I was the monthly volunteer for cleaning. I was stunned to see how many bibles had been moved out of the sanctuary, moved to boxes and low shelves out of sight, and how much of what used to hang on the walls of the Word and the Gospel had been taken down and literally turned over. This spirit to remove the Bible and the Word even from the churches is prevalent everywhere in this day. We do not battle flesh and blood.
"On Christ the Solid Rock I stand: all other ground is sinking sand."
Jesus told us ahead of time, and confirmed the saying through Paul:
"Savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock."
Satan is no dummy. His greatest craftiness is to preach his messages from 'Christian' pulpits, through 'Christian' churches, and to disguise himself as an angel of LIGHT. Those who are more attached in their most sacred love to the social church and the praise of men, to these shallow comforters, rather than to the Body of Christ which is the Word and Spirit, will be taken captive through deceit, not willing to be led captive in the train of the Victor Through Death. The power of deception is that it appears true - yet it is always the shallow way to comfort, glossy, and by this we may recognize it: it does not comport with the Way of God, the cross of Christ our Head, despised and rejected by men, betrayed with a kiss, murdered by brethren outside the camp. Love crucified in full daylight, naked and unashamed in agony for men, is the Truth. How frequent are its imitations.
There is a great winnowing happening before our eyes, and chaff is blowing in the wind: a dust storm clouding the sun. The winnowing fork and wind lift up the whole heap, but the grain, being full of weight, falls back to the threshing floor, the Foundation, while the chaff, having no seed, blows about - it will escape the lash only to be caught in the fire. It seems right to note that this work is the last that happens in the harvest process, just before the wheat is gathered into the barns.
AMEN AND AMEN!
GRACE AND GRACE!
Mt 3:12 "His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather His wheat into the barn; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."
Mt 13:25 "but while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat and went his way.
Mt 13:29 "But he said, 'No, lest while you gather up the tares you also uproot the wheat with them.
Mt 13:30 'Let both grow together until the harvest, and at the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, "First gather together the tares and bind them in bundles to burn them, but gather the wheat into my barn."'"
Lu 3:17 "His winnowing fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly clean out His threshing floor, and gather the wheat into His barn; but the chaff He will burn with unquenchable fire."
Lu 16:7 "Then he said to another, 'And how much do you owe?' So he said, 'A hundred measures of wheat.' And he said to him, 'Take your bill, and write eighty.'
Lu 22:31 And the Lord said, "Simon, Simon! Indeed, Satan has asked for you, that he may sift you as wheat.
Joh 12:24 "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the ground and dies, it remains alone; but if it dies, it produces much grain.
(NKJV)
7 SOLAS!
I know you're referring to Bibles, but the congregation won't be needed for this class either. :D
Your church's course appears to be set. All hail the Seeker.
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