PREDESTINATION; LIVE BY GRACE; NOT BY WORKS (WEEK 8)

St. Louis Center for Christian Study ^ | Greg Johnson

[Dr. Eckleburg]

If salvation is all of grace -- if God is God and he has chosen us for salvation even though we did nothing to deserve it -- then we ought to live by the grace we have received. Of course, some of you will look at that and say to yourselves, “Yeah, I really need to do better at living by grace. I’ve really been a failure there. I hope God will forgive me again.” If that’s you, you still don’t get it. Go back and re-read the last seventeen pages and (if you’re a believer) remember that you’re one of the elect!

Our hearts so quickly try to relate to God on a works-basis! It’s our pride, really. I’m convinced that that’s the problem with free-will Arminianism. People naturally process it like this: God requires one work from me, to believe. Once I believe, I’ve done my work and deserve heaven. Of course, in more hard-line Arminian circles, it goes a step further. Unless I’m holy enough, I’ll still go to hell, and maybe I’ve even committed the unpardonable sin and will be damned even if I’m sinlessly perfect from here on out. Legalism. Legalism. Legalism. Such a religion is barely recognizable as Christianity.

But Calvinists can fall into legalism just as easily. You see, I understand predestination. I’m a superior Christian. I’ve got all my theological “t”s crossed and my Reformed “i”s dotted. I sure am close to God. Pride is the Presbyterian’s favorite form of legalism, so watch out! But if God really is for us, and if we had nothing to do with that decision -- if even our faith was given to us by the Father -- then there’s no room for boasting. God’s sovereign choice of us leaves us free from pride. It leaves us aware of our brokenness and humble before God, but all the while confident that his eternal purpose will stand, that we will glory in God forever as objects of his saving mercy. As God’s eternal blessing really begins to sink from our heads into our hearts, we see a new freedom that we never would have imagined when we first encountered the raw, holy, sovereign power of God. Among the newfound freedoms:

1. Freedom from shame, guilt & Insecurity

Read Romans 8:28-39. Nothing can separate you from God’s love -- nothing in the past, nothing in the future. No one can stand against you. No one can accuse you. Even bad things (“all things”) are working right now to your benefit, to make you more like Jesus. God didn’t choose you because of your faith, and Jesus is not ashamed of you—even at your worst (Hebrews 2:11). He’s proud to have you in the family, proud to call you brother or sister -- even knowing what he knows. He’s displaying the glory of his mercy, remember. God’s law is no longer your enemy, but a friend. You can have confidence before God.

2. Freedom from destructive Perfectionism

If God really is for you, then you can quit trying to look good. If you’re trying to be good enough for God, he’s not buying it -- he didn’t choose you because of your great faithfulness. If you’re trying to be good enough for other people, don’t bother. God wants to display his mercy -- that means we have to be broken. God’s glory is not displayed by trying to look like you have it all together. Faith is not a work, and even if it were it still wouldn’t earn you any brownie points. Let God be God. If you won’t show your weakness, then others won’t see God’s power displayed in it.

3. Freedom from legalistic man-made rules

Some of the biggest practical opponents to living by grace are those legalistic little rules that we live by. We love to judge other with them -- they make us look good, and help us feel better about ourselves. (Pride again.) Dress this way, not that way. Wear this much makeup, not that much. Work. Don’t work. Home school is God’s way. Public school is God’s way. Christian school is God’s way. Drink. Don’t drink. Smoke. Don’t smoke. Dance. Don’t dance. This is God’s worship style. If we’re all about God’s glory, there’s no room for any of this. Do whatever you do for God’s glory without comparisons. God has freed you from judging others. You don’t understand God’ sovereign grace until you realize you are a beggar who’s been blessed without cause. You had nothing to do with it -- you’re just a receiver.

4. Freedom from Penance

Even repentance can be a sham if we’re trying to approach God with some vestige of self-reliance. Biblical repentance is a freedom we can enjoy daily, while penance is its counterfeit.

Repentance/Penance

Comes with empty hands/Tries to bargain with God

Acknowledges real sin as against God/Makes excuses for sin

Grieves over displeasing God/Grieves over getting caught

Asks for help to do better/Promises to do better

Is willing to publicly confess, if needed/Is too proud to publicly confess

Relies on God's promises to us/Relies on own promises to God

Turns outward, away from self, to God/Turns inward on self

Produces freedom, joy, and confidence/Produces guilty feelings, anxiety

God has obligated himself to receive any repentant sinner who comes to him. Without this realization, true repentance is impossible. Until we realize that God is for us, we cannot truly be for God.

[Forest Keeper]

When people claim that the sacraments are means of grace, and then deny that the sacraments are in any way salvific, it is hard for me to see how they are not contradicting themselves.

Well, as you know the subject of grace itself can be as complex as one wishes to make it. In the broad sense, I think "grace" can be considered any aid from God. I think it is correct to say that God graced me by giving me my wife. I'm not saying I think that's how it is presented in the WCF, I probably wouldn't have chosen those words. However, I am reasonably certain that the consensus Reformed view is that baptism carries no salvific effects. I suspect there is an easy explanation for the language of the WCF, and I'm just not seeing it right now.

And if it is not in any way salvific, then *why* do it?

We baptize because it is commanded by God. It is a public obedience to Him. Covenant baptism has additional benefits.

As Flannery O'Connor once said, "Well, if it's a symbol, to hell with it."

Now you have to admit that's the epitome of irony coming from a Catholic! :)

[O Neill]

Thank you very much for the excerpt from Arthur Pink & the link to his book. Very helpful (!!) & makes perfect sense, since James is probably the earliest written book of the New Testament and James, not being an extensive traveler like Paul, would have been writing primarily to early Jewish converts to the Christian faith near Jerusalem (I imagine) who might well have jumped to a mis-conclusion about their new-found freedom from the Old Testament 'law' & 'works' of worship, much like lottery winners no longer bound to the daily grind of a mundane job.

It may well have appeared to those early Christians that no more requirement for 'works' or adherence to 'laws' meant granting of a license to fully explore sin without fear of a wrathful God (which Paul also controverts many years later, in his Epistles, but more briefly). But James, writing for Jerusalem's new Christians, may have felt a more urgent need to counter an initial, fast-spreading misinterpretation.

Anyway, thanks again & have a Happy Thanksgiving!

[adiaireton8]

We baptize because it is commanded by God. It is a public obedience to Him. Covenant baptism has additional benefits.

Either the "benefits" contribute to salvation or not. If not, then why do them? And if you say, Because God commands, then why would God command you do to do something that did not contribute to your salvation?

Now you have to admit that's the epitome of irony coming from a Catholic!

I would have said the same as a Protestant. But now I realize that we don't have mere symbols. We have things that are truly holy.

-A8

[Forest Keeper]

They can't have it both ways. Either grace is conferred through the sacraments or not.

I could be wrong, but my reading of those two passages I cited earlier was that any grace of any kind is not necessarily conferred at Baptism, but that the Holy Spirit is free to do as He wills when He wills it. However, I may not fully understand how the WCF is using the word "grace" here.

[xzins]

Are you sure we get the last word?

That comment tells me that I'm sure you didn't read what I wrote.

Happy Thanksgiving, DrE.

[Forest Keeper]

As my priest has told me, it is precisely the presence of God in hell that makes hell so miserable for the damned. The love of God is for them like a burning fire that is painful and repulsive. In other words, God never leaves; it would be impossible for Him to do so.

So, are you saying that the indwelling Holy Spirit goes with the damned into hell and stays with them through eternity? I have never heard that before. What does the Spirit do there, tease the people?

I have heard of the Catholic belief that Christ went down to hell temporarily, but I have never heard of God being an everlasting presence in hell. Isn't hell supposed to be the eternal separation from God? Assuming that there will not be even a pretense of relating this to scripture, where does this belief come from?

[adiaireton8]

Isn't hell supposed to be the eternal separation from God?

In the afterlife, "separation" from God does not mean spatial separation, for there is nowhere one can go to flee away from Him. Separation from God is one of disposition; one does not love God; one is at enmity with God in one's soul. This is the essence of hell, to be estranged from God (and thus from oneself and one's neighbor).

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

You're welcome, and thank you for your excellent understanding of James. All very probable. Happy Thanksgiving. And stick around. Anyone who enjoys Pink is a welcome voice. 8~)

[Forest Keeper]

[Harley:] Can you point FK and myself to some concise doctrinal writing that clearly defines the purpose of Holy Spirit from the Catholic perspective?

No. The Holy Spirit, being God, has no purpose.

Jesus is God. Does Catholicism also say that Jesus had no purpose?

[Dr. Eckleburg]

It's the "free will is previewed by God" that just doesn't ring true to me, x. Nothing precedes God's determining will. If He thought it at the moment of creation, then it's set in stone because even His hypothetical "change of mind" would be factored into His omnipotent knowledge of His own creation.

We are as God wills, one beat behind. From our perspective, life is happenstance. From God's perspective, it's all yesterday's headlines. For those who believe in His Son, that's the good news of the Gospel. He has redeemed His flock because it pleased Him to do so from before the foundation of the world, before anyone could do anything good or evil "that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth."

I hope all your family is together this year and you have a lovely, loving Thanksgiving. 8~)

[adiaireton8]

I'm not denying that the Persons of the Trinity have unique roles in creation and redemption. But only created things have "purpose". God is His own end; He is not "made for something".

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

Either the "benefits" contribute to salvation or not. If not, then why do them?

With that egocentric line of thinking, every breath we take, every penny we put in the offering basket, every good deed we perform, is done in order to merit a place in heaven, in total contradiction to Scripture.

"So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy." -- Romans 9:6

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast." -- Ephesians 2:8-9

Saved, not by works, but by mercy.

Baptism and the Lord's Supper are gifts God has given to His children to draw them closer to Him. They earn us nothing. Christ was the only payment equal to the penalty, and He paid for us in full.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

But only created things have "purpose"

"Only created beings have purpose," and since God is not a created being, you are stating God has no purpose???

"For the LORD of hosts hath purposed, and who shall disannul it? and his hand is stretched out, and who shall turn it back? -- Isaiah 14:27

"And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose." -- Romans 8:28

"For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth" -- Romans 9:11

"In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will" -- Ephesians 1:11

"According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord" -- Ephesians 3:11

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" -- 2 Timothy 1:9

[adiaireton8]

A8: Either the "benefits" contribute to salvation or not. If not, then why do them?

Dr.E Baptism and the Lord's Supper are gifts God has given to His children to draw them closer to Him.

You proceed to attack my claim that the sacraments contribute to our salvation. And then you say that the sacraments draw us closer to Him. What exactly is salvation, if not being drawn closer to Him?

Forest Keeper, this is an example of the internal contradiction in Reformed theology with respect to the sacraments. Salvation, in Reformed theology, apparently, has nothing to do with being united to God.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

There is a difference between having by nature an intrinsic purpose, and purposing. I am talking about the former, and you are talking about the latter.

-A8

[Dr. Eckleburg]

What exactly is salvation, if not being drawn closer to Him?

Salvation is Christ hanging from the cross and raising from the dead three days later. That is salvation.

Salvation, in Reformed theology, apparently, has nothing to do with being united to God.

Again, salvation is not what I do; it is what Christ has done for me and all who believe in Him.

I understand your error here. It was the basis for the Reformation.

[Dr. Eckleburg]

There is a difference between having by nature an intrinsic purpose, and purposing. I am talking about the former, and you are talking about the latter

God is His own purpose.

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began" -- 2 Timothy 1:9

I'm beginning to think you'd split hairs on a bald man.

Good night, all. Happy Thanksgiving.

[adiaireton8]

I'm beginning to think you'd split hairs on a bald man.

That's an ad hominem.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

Salvation is Christ hanging from the cross and raising from the dead three days later. That is salvation.

Such a definition of salvation leaves the sinner hell-bound, because the sinner is not even included in the definition of salvation.

But the point of my question remains unanswered: What is the relation between salvation and being drawn closer to God? I pointed out in #514 that in #512 you make being drawn closer to God have nothing to do with salvation.

Again, salvation is not what I do; it is what Christ has done for me and all who believe in Him.

Notice the contradiction in the very same sentence. You say that salvation is not what you do, but then in the second part of the sentence you smuggle in something that you must do: believe.

That contradicts something you said in #512. There you wrote: "With that egocentric line of thinking, every breath we take, every penny we put in the offering basket, every good deed we perform, is done in order to merit a place in heaven, in total contradiction to Scripture." Reformed theology smuggles merit in as "belief". You talk as it is all Christ, but actually *you* have to do something; you have to believe. That is another contradiction in Reformed theology.

-A8

[adiaireton8]

2 Tim 1:9 does not say that God *is* His own purpose. It says that God *did* something according to His own purpose.

-A8