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The Real Trinity
November 9, 2006 | Brion James

Posted on 11/09/2006 8:44:45 AM PST by policyforever867

The Holy Trinity


TOPICS: Religion & Culture
KEYWORDS: catholic; trinity
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To: klossg
And the Ecumenical Councils have also defined The Trinity and we express our belief in the Trinity in various creeds/prayers. It is by faith, by God's Word and the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

I'm happy for ya.

61 posted on 11/10/2006 12:43:28 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
"I'm happy for ya."

Thanks.
62 posted on 11/10/2006 12:46:08 PM PST by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: klossg
Thanks.

Don't get me wrong I still believe your faith in this area to be in error but I'm still happy for ya. :-)

63 posted on 11/10/2006 1:00:33 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
"Don't get me wrong I still believe your faith in this area to be in error but I'm still happy for ya. :-) "

Thanks again. What does it matter what you believe about what I believe. I thought you wanted to stick to the topic. But, ... since you bring it up ... do go on.
64 posted on 11/10/2006 1:08:56 PM PST by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: klossg
Thanks again. What does it matter what you believe about what I believe. I thought you wanted to stick to the topic. But, ... since you bring it up ... do go on.

it matters because we're both discussing the trinity. duh.

65 posted on 11/10/2006 1:13:20 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
"duh"

Again. Thanks. I want to be sure. (Lob) Are you saying that you have faith that what I have faith in is not correct?
66 posted on 11/10/2006 1:17:31 PM PST by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: klossg
Again. Thanks. I want to be sure. (Lob) Are you saying that you have faith that what I have faith in is not correct?

I don't believe it to be correct. That doesn't mean there might not be some outside chance that it is. Be that as it may, I just wanted to be sure you knew exactly what I meant when I told you that I'm happy for ya. Beings I'm one of your favorite freepers and all. :-)

67 posted on 11/10/2006 1:21:17 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: Invincibly Ignorant
"I'm one of your favorite freepers and all"

Baby if you were a Hollywood actor I'd have posters of you all over my room and be the president of the fan club. I'd be first in line to get tickets. I have faith that by some outside chance you may be right to. Wink. Wink. Wrist flip, ending in my pointer finger pointing directly at you. Yeah baby. Yeah!
68 posted on 11/10/2006 1:27:57 PM PST by klossg (GK - God is good!)
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To: klossg
Baby if you were a Hollywood actor I'd have posters of you all over my room and be the president of the fan club. I'd be first in line to get tickets. I have faith that by some outside chance you may be right to. Wink. Wink. Wrist flip, ending in my pointer finger pointing directly at you. Yeah baby. Yeah!

Ok. Not even going to comment on this. lol.

69 posted on 11/10/2006 1:29:56 PM PST by Invincibly Ignorant
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To: policyforever867; XeniaSt; Thinkin' Gal
There’s no such thing as a Father and Son without a Mother. To the (Hebrew) books!

Now, YHVH is a name, but the KJ translators gave it a title (LORD). Same thing with EL and her variants, which they translated into God. You have to go Hebrew.

Exodus 15

1 Then sang Moses and the children of Israel this song unto YHVH, and spake, saying, I will sing unto YHVH, for he hath triumphed gloriously: the horse and his rider hath he thrown into the sea.

2 YaH is my strength and song, and he is become my salvation (Yeshua): he is my EL, and I will prepare him an habitation; my father's ELoHiM, and I will exalt him.

3 YHVH is a man of war: the YHVH is his name.

***

YHVH is masculine.

Numbers 23

19 EL is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it? or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

There you go, EL (God) is not a man, even the comma is in the perfect place (for English). But the Hebrew is emphatic, No Not Nay man EL.

YHVH is masculine, EL is feminine!

See (the Hebrew) for yourself!

http://www.blueletterbible.org/index.html

70 posted on 11/10/2006 2:02:23 PM PST by Jeremiah Jr (Saturn is in Leo)
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To: policyforever867
More references:

The Role of the Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit: God's Power at Work

Living a Great Miracle: Being Led by God's Spirit

Why is the Holy Spirit called "He" and "Him"?

Grammar Confuses the Nature of the Holy Spirit

The Holy Spirit: Not a Personal Being

Just What is the Holy Spirit?

Confusion About the Trinity Teaching

The Holy Spirit: God's Transforming Power

71 posted on 11/11/2006 7:56:48 AM PST by DouglasKC
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To: Jeremiah Jr
Numbers 23 19 EL is not a man, that he should lie; neither the son of man,
that he should repent: hath he said, and shall he not do it?
or hath he spoken, and shall he not make it good?

There you go, EL (God) is not a man, even the comma is
in the perfect place (for English). But the Hebrew is emphatic, No Not Nay man EL.

YHVH is masculine, EL is feminine! See (the Hebrew) for yourself!

But the Tanach translate it differently, the word
"El" is masculine singular.
b'shem Y'shua
72 posted on 11/11/2006 9:22:13 AM PST by Uri’el-2012 (Psalm 144:1 Praise be to YHvH, my Rock, who trains my hands for war, my fingers for battle.)
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To: policyforever867
Rats, I thought this was a thread about Kary Ann Moss - the chick on The Matrix.

Like you, I believed in this for many years until I got to thinking about it. It seems hard for me to believe that Jesus and God are the same entity since Jesus refers to "His Father" a whole lot and Jesus prays to someone a couple times. If you add this to the first time the word God appears in scripture, the Greek shows it as "Elohim" which is a plural word. Literally translated, Genesis 1:1 should read "In the beginning, Gods created the heavens and the earth".

In all practicality, it would be pretty hard for Jesus to sit at the right hand of Himself.

Chris.

73 posted on 11/11/2006 8:14:21 PM PST by kerryusama04 (Isa 8:20, Eze 22:26)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Exactly. The church is to teach the Truth, which is contained in the Word of God.


74 posted on 11/15/2006 10:14:13 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
"Exactly. The church is to teach the Truth, which is contained in the Word of God."

Well, 'exactly' right back at'cha! But don't reduce the meaning of the "Word of God" just to what's between the covers of the Bible. That would be un-Biblical, because the Bible itself instructs us, as St. Paul says, to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching. Jesus told his disciples: "He who hears you hears me, and he who rejects you rejects me" (Luke 10:16).

This "hearing" means, precisely, oral instruction: "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). The Church would always be the living teacher. So it is a mistake to limit "Christ’s word" to only His written word.

God teaches us also by Natural Law--- created by His Word --- and the Church is the guide and interpreter of all this truth, whether from the Book of Nature or the Book of Scripture.

75 posted on 11/15/2006 12:54:23 PM PST by Mrs. Don-o (The Bible tells me so.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

In Scripture, we have everything we need to be "complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:17).


76 posted on 11/15/2006 1:08:37 PM PST by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
You wrote: In Scripture, we have everything we need to be "complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (2 Timothy 3:17).

Please notice that the decisive word everything here is your word, and does not form part of the Scriptures. Yet it whether the written Scripture has "everything," is precisely the question which is under dispute.

You can't prove it by inserting the decisive word "everything" in there, yourself! And while Scripture itself says that all inspired writing "is useful," it does not say that the inspired writing is the sole rule of faith. In fact, Scripture itself indicates a need for more than Scripture alone: I'm referring to what was handed down orally by the Apostles.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours.

Please read the two verses immediately before 2 Timothy 3:16-17 :"But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it, and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings which are able to instruct you for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus" (2 Tim. 3:14–15).

Notice that in v. 15, Paul is referring to the scriptures which Timothy was taught as a little boy. (Some translations say "infant," some say "babe.")

Most of the the various letters, papers and books of the Christ-inspired NT authors were not even written at the time of Timothy's childhood, let alone scrutinized by the Church,sorted out from other writings which were of dubious authenticity like the non-canonical "Gospels,", and assembled into the canon of "The New Testament." So St. Paul is referring to the writings of the Old Testament; and I'm sure you'd agree that he is NOT saying that only the Old, and not the New Testament, is necessary for one to be "complete, thoroughly equipped."

Paul tells Timothy to continue in what he has learned because he knows from whom he has learned it, Paul himself: that is, the oral teaching which the apostle Paul had given Timothy. When the passage is read in context, it becomes clear that Paul is teaching the importance of BOTH the written and the oral (unwritten) parts of apostolic tradition.

Paul says that much Christian teaching was handed down by word of mouth (2 Tim. 2:2). In another Epistle, he instructs us to "stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter" (2 Thess. 2:15).

This oral teaching was accepted by Christians, just as they accepted the written teaching that came to them later. "So faith comes from what is heard, and what is heard comes by the preaching of Christ" (Rom. 10:17). It is un-Biblical to limit "Christ’s word" to the written word only or to suggest that all his teachings were reduced to writing. It certainly doesn't say that in the Bible.

The oral teaching of Christ would last until the end of time. "’But the word of the Lord abides for ever.’ That word is the good news which was preached to you" (1 Pet. 1:25). Note that the word has been "preached"—that is, communicated orally. It is this which will "abide forever." It would not be totally replaced by a written record like the Bible (reinforced, yes, but not replaced), and would continue to have its own authority.

This must be obvious when you recall that, of the Twelve who were sent by Christ to plant His Church, only five--- Matthew, John, Peter, James, and Jude --- wrote Gospels or Epistles which were eventually recognized by the Church as being part of the canon of Sacred Scripture. Seven others --- the "lesser" James, Andrew, Bartholomew, Philip, Simon, Thomas, and Judas' successor, Matthias -- were sent out equipped with nothing in terms of a written New Testament, and with only their own oral, apostolic testimony as the basis of their mission.

These men carried out Christ's Great Commission to preach, teach, and baptize all nations , at least at first without written Gospels or Epistles. Or do you think that these men journeyed to places like Ethiopia, Edessa, Assyria, Cappadocia, Bithynia, Byzantium, Thrace, Macedonia, Thessaly, and Achaia --- all sites of apostolically-founded churches --- and said, "Um... er... well, I'm not equipped to say anything, because I have little or nothing in writing"?

2 Thessalonians 2:15 So then, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye were taught, whether by word, or by epistle of ours.

77 posted on 11/16/2006 8:14:51 AM PST by Mrs. Don-o (The Bible tells me so.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

While the word "everything" is not in the text, it fits with the meaning of the passage. Verse 17 tells us what comes from using Scripture "for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness" (v. 16). It is so "that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (v.17).


78 posted on 11/16/2006 8:25:44 AM PST by jkl1122
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To: jkl1122
It is so "that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work" (v.17)

So, who is the "man of God"?

-A8

79 posted on 11/16/2006 9:16:14 AM PST by adiaireton8 ("There is no greater evil one can suffer than to hate reasonable discourse." - Plato, Phaedo 89d)
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To: adiaireton8

The "man of God" refers to one who has obeyed the Gospel of Christ.


80 posted on 11/16/2006 9:18:58 AM PST by jkl1122
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