St. Peter and Rome

Catholic Exchange.com ^ | 11-15-04 | Amy Barragree

[Salvation]

St. Peter and Rome

11/15/04

Dear Catholic Exchange:

Why did St. Peter establish the Church in Rome?

Ed

Dear Ed,

Peace in Christ!

We do not know why Peter went to Rome. The Church has always maintained, based on historical evidence, that Peter went to Rome, but has never taught why this happened. In speculating on this matter, there are two primary considerations.

First, at the time of Jesus and the early Church, the Roman Empire controlled the lands around the Mediterranean, a large portion of what is now Europe, and most of what is now called the Middle East. Rome was one of the biggest, most influential cities in the Western world. It was the center of political authority, economic progress, cultural expression, and many other aspects of life in the Roman Empire. This may have played a role in Peter’s decision to go to Rome.

Second, Jesus promised the Apostles that He would send the Holy Spirit to guide them. Scripture shows Peter following the promptings of the Holy Spirit throughout his ministry. It somehow fits into God’s providence and eternal plan that His Church be established in Rome. Peter may have gone to Rome for no other reason than that is where the Holy Spirit wanted him.

Historical evidence does show that Peter did go to Rome and exercised his authority as head of the Apostles from there. The earliest Christians provided plenty of documentation in this regard.

Among these was St. Irenæus of Lyons, a disciple of St. Polycarp who had received the Gospel from the Apostle St. John. Near the end of his life St. Irenæus mentioned, in his work Against Heresies (c. A.D. 180-199), the work of Peter and Paul in Rome:

Matthew also issued among the Hebrews a written Gospel in their own language, while Peter and Paul were evangelizing in Rome and laying the foundation of the Church (Book 3, Chapter 1, verse 1).

The African theologian Tertullian tells us that Peter and Paul both died in Rome in Demurrer Against the Heretics (c. A.D. 200):

Come now, if you would indulge a better curiosity in the business of your salvation, run through the apostolic Churches in which the very thrones of the Apostles remain still in place; in which their own authentic writings are read, giving sound to the voice and recalling the faces of each.... [I]f you are near to Italy, you have Rome, whence also our authority [i.e., in Carthage] derives. How happy is that Church, on which the Apostles poured out their whole doctrine along with their blood, where Peter endured a passion like that of the Lord, where Paul was crowned in a death like John’s [i.e., the Baptist], where the Apostle John, after being immersed in boiling oil and suffering no hurt, was exiled to an island.

Tertullian was certainly not the only ancient author who testified that Peter was crucified in Rome. An ancient, orthodox historical text known as the "Acts of Saints Peter and Paul" elaborates on the preaching and martyrdom of the two Apostles in Rome. The dating of this document is difficult, but historians cited in the Catholic Encyclopedia placed its probable origins between A.D. 150-250.

One of the earliest thorough histories of the Church was Bishop Eusebius of Cæsarea’s Ecclesiastical History. Most of this work was written before Constantine became emperor in A.D. 324, and some portions were added afterward. Eusebius quotes many previous historical documents regarding Peter and Paul’s travels and martyrdom in Rome, including excellent excerpts from ancient documents now lost, like Presbyter Gaius of Rome’s "Disputation with Proclus" (c. A.D. 198-217) and Bishop Dionysius of Corinth’s "Letter to Soter of Rome" (c. A.D. 166-174). Penguin Books publishes a very accessible paperback edition of Eusebius’s history of the Church, and most libraries will probably own a copy as well.

For more ancient accounts of Peter’s presence in Rome, see the writings of the Church Fathers, which are published in various collections. Jurgens’s Faith of the Early Fathers, volumes 1-3, contains a collection of patristic excerpts with a topical index which apologists find very useful (Liturgical Press). Hendrickson Publishers and Paulist Press both publish multi-volume hardcover editions of the works of the Church Fathers. Penguin Books and St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press publish a few works of the Fathers in relatively inexpensive paperback editions.

More treatments of Petrine questions may be found in Stephen K. Ray’s Upon This Rock (Ignatius); Jesus, Peter, & the Keys by Butler, Dahlgren, and Hess (Queenship); Patrick Madrid’s Pope Fiction (Basilica); and in the Catholic Answers tracts “Was Peter In Rome?” and “The Fathers Know Best: Peter In Rome.”

Please feel free to call us at 1-800-MY FAITH or email us with any further questions on this or any other subject. If you have found this information to be helpful, please consider a donation to CUF to help sustain this service. You can call the toll-free line, visit us at www.cuf.org, or send your contribution to the address below. Thank you for your support as we endeavor to “support, defend, and advance the efforts of the teaching Church.”

United in the Faith,

Amy Barragree
Information Specialist
Catholics United for the Faith
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[Diego1618]

And it explains why one of the biggest proponents of expelling the Jews from the Land in Israel and filling it with Palestinians today is the Vatican in Rome itself

Yeah...the biggest proponent of "Replacement Theology". I am amazed that Catholic Websites even make statements like the following: "We Catholics do not think the Lord intended Christianity to be simply a modified form of Judaism. We think there is a reason Greek was used to write the New Testament as well as the Old (Septuagint)."

This hatred of anything "Jewish"...and calling themselves the "New Israel" has shown to the world just who this "Synagogue of Satan" is....calling themselves Jews...who are not!

[Iscool]

Then I remembered the co-worker who quietly supported me in my work and treated me with respect. That person was instrumental in getting me interested in the Catholic Church.

2Co 11:6 But though I be rude in speech, yet not in knowledge; but we have been throughly made manifest among you in all things.

2Co 10:10 For his letters, say they, are weighty and powerful; but his bodily presence is weak, and his speech contemptible.

Like the apostle Paul, I'm not worried about hurting anyone's feelings...My concern is not with the thickness of your skin, but your soul...

Like one preacher said, if you can't win 'em with love, SCARE the Hell out of 'em...

You don't like my attitude or tone of voice...Yet I speak Christ Crucified...I have confidence in the grace of Jesus Christ and you call it arrogance...And yet I speak of Jesus and lost souls and not of myself...

Your church claims that YOU can't know for certain if you are saved, until you die and go thru purgatory...

I say that if you don't know your salvation is secure, there's a good chance you aren't filled with the Holy Spirit...And if you aren't filled with the Spirit, you aren't saved...

I don't care about your church...Your multi-million dollar buildings and statues and pictures mean nothing to me, and God, I'm sure...That stuff isn't Christianity, it's religion...Fact is, Jesus says sell all that stuff and give it to the poor...

I realize a lot of people paint a picture of Jesus as a frail, weakling sissy type of God...He however showed some rage when he went thru the temple with the money changers...And I'll bet that when they place the crown of thorns on his head, had it not been for his destiny, he'd have cleaned out the entire room...

I realize you've been taught not to believe the bible in Revelation...It's allegorical, your church says...I know better than that...

In fact, I can't understand how a person who claims to be filled with the Holy Ghost could not know that Revelation is not allegorical...

Anyway, as the book says, Jesus is going to come back (with his church) and he's going to wield his sword and massacre millions...Their blood will run as deep as the bridles on horses...A river of blood...This ain't no weak kneed, sissy, lovey-dovey God we have here...Jesus will put his right arm around you while running thru the adversary with a sword in his left hand, at the same time...

I can't picture the Lord with blonde hair and blue eyes with limp wrists and a tenor voice...That's girly stuff...My Lord is a man's man...

[Iscool]

You and the other folks posting this stuff have 'got it'...Thanks guys for taking the time to do the research...

[kerryusama04]

"And the king of Assyria brought men from Babylon . . . and placed them in the cities of Samaria instead of the children of Israel; and they possessed Samaria, and dwelt in its cities."

FRiend, you have just chipped the tip of the iceberg. All of the apostasy in our midst traces itself back to ancient Bablon. Notice very closely how the verse above replaces the chosen people who kept the true faith with Babylonian pagans. I feel that this is one of the meanings of the references to Babylon in Revelation. It also ties in with the harlotry references:

Jdg 2:17 Yet they did not listen to their judges, for they played the harlot after other gods and bowed themselves down to them. They turned aside quickly from the way in which their fathers had walked in obeying the commandments of the LORD; they did not do as their fathers.

Playing the harlot in scriptural terms is a reference to mixing pagan worship with the worship of the Lord. Recall that Paul wants to present the Church as a chaste virgin:

2Co 11:2 For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.

Virginity is associated with purity. Remember in Revelation, Babylon is a whore who makes the nations drink the wine of her fornications. Also, remember, the Israelites were to have NOTHING to do with their pagan neighbors, lest they walk after their false Gods. See Numbers 25 for a good illustration.

[Diego1618]

Historical fact that Peter ever went to Rome is missing.

We might add....Biblical fact as well!

[Diego1618]

Like most historians, I’m still waiting for proof that Peter ever ventured to Rome. Why would he, he had already shown that he was unworthy by denying Christ three times.

The main reason he never went there was because of a direct command from the Lord. [Matthew 10:5-6]

[Diego1618]

Do we have anyone from around the time of those two saying Peter never went to Rome?

We have a direct command from the Lord to not go among the Gentiles. [Matthew 10:5-6]

Does this qualify?????

[Running On Empty]

"like St. Paul , I'm not worried about hurting anyone's feelings"

Let's take just a few of examples from St. Paul's exhortations to his people:


"The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patient endurance, kindness, generosity, faith, mildness, and chastity. Against these there is no law."

"God chose us in Him before the world began, to be holy and blameless in His sight, to be full of love."

"Do nothing to sadden the Holy Spirit with whom you are sealed against the day of redemption. Get rid of all bitterness, all passion and anger, harsh words, slander and malice of every kind. In place of these, be kind to one another, compassionate and mutually forgiving, just as God has forgiven you in Christ."

"Live a life worthy of the calling you have received, with perfect humility, meekness and patience, bearing with one another lovingly."

"Be imitators of God as his dear children. Follow the way of love, even as Christ loved you."

Do Paul's words sound like a man presenting a "girley" Jesus? No, he sounds like an Apostle who saw the Lord and understood one thing--that God, Who is a God of love, saved him.

Does St. John present a "girley" Jesus when he writes--?
"God is love, and he who loves is in God and God in him."

[Running On Empty]

"Your church claims"---this is patently false.

"I don't care about your church"---if that's the truth, then don't concern yourself with it.

"I realize you've been taught not to read the bible in Revelation"------this is false. The Catholic church teaches that Revelation is anagogical, that it is also linked to the Book of Daniel, and that, like all Scripture is also understood from the moral perspective. That it contains some references as allegorical, especially those passages linked to the Book of Daniel, is not at all unfounded.

"I can't picture the Lord with blonde hair and blue eyes, with limp wrists and a tenor voice"-----I don't know where you came up with that.

[Mad Dawg]

We have a direct command from the Lord to not go among the Gentiles.[Matthew 10:5-6]
Does this qualify?????

I don't think it does. That command was given in a particular pre-death, pre-resurrection, pre-pentecost missionary situation. (In another place Jesus describes Himself as sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.) The ministry to the Gentiles is a post-pentecost deal.

It's interesting to try to make that pre missionary journey instruction stay in force after Pentecost, but then we'd have to re-think Paul's missionary journey.

That reminds me: there were Jews in Rome, so even if the command DID apply, Peter's going to Rome would not necesarily be a violation of it, right?

Anyway, we're let with some evidence that Peter went to Rome and no evidence (so far) that he didn't. The preponderance, therefore, is that he did.

[Diego1618]

It's interesting to try to make that pre missionary journey instruction stay in force after Pentecost, but then we'd have to re-think Paul's missionary journey.

Well....he "does" say [Matthew 10:5] "These twelve Jesus sent"/ Douay Rheims.

Most others say the same

Paul was selected as the Gentile's Apostle while the "Twelve" still had their mission....post Pentecost. Don't you agree?

[stfassisi]

You and the other folks posting this stuff have 'got it'...Thanks guys for taking the time to do the research...

Uncle Chip has "got NOTHING",if he/she/them did they would have answered the question immediately if he/she/them are atheist or he/she/them believe Jesus is God.

[Uncle Chip]

Read the entire thread and you will find that there is no evidence that the real Peter was there in Rome --- just an impostor calling himself "Peter" whose real name was Simon Magus, the first Bishop of the counterfeit Church of Rome.

[stfassisi]

Do you praise Jesus Christ and believe Jesus is God?

[stfassisi]

Please write the following words and post them uncle chip.
I believe Jesus Christ is God.

[Diego1618]

I understand the Catholics claim Linus as the "second" Pope. However, there is no indication Peter claimed himself as the first nor is there any indication that Peter had some "authority" over Paul.

See post #617

[Mad Dawg]

Read the entire thread and you will find that there is no evidence that the real Peter was there in Rome --- just an impostor calling himself "Peter" whose real name was Simon Magus, the first Bishop of the counterfeit Church of Rome.

I may find that some people contend that, but I have read the thread and I didn't find that it was so.

[Mad Dawg]

Paul was selected as the Gentile's Apostle while the "Twelve" still had their mission....post Pentecost. Don't you agree?

Nope.

Cut me a break. I looked at it in Greek.

[Uncle Chip]

St Francis of Assisi, I do believe that Jesus Christ is God, but that is not enough to save my soul, despite what the pontificators of "Sola Fide" maintain. Simon Magus believed for awhile and he became the greatest apostate of all time. He was also baptized and that didn't convert his soul. So much for "Sola Fide" and that guarantee of salvation promised by the sacrament of Baptism, right?There is a whole lot of theology out there that following the trail of this one man has exposed as lacking foundation. I have done this exercise here not for my sake but for yours and others.

There is one thing throughout human history that has saved people without fail and that is the Word of God. Those who had it, believed it, and acted on it are all in a better place now. And if one doesn't have the Word of God, then he doesn't have Jesus Christ either -- period.

Unless one is born again of the Word of God by the God who gave His Word and keeps His Word, he can do all the praying, mouthing religious slogans, and churchgoing he wants, and it will all be vain and futile. They can confess till their tongue falls out and mouth all those bible verses until they choke on them. The Holy Spirit inspired those words of the Scriptures and he will not indwell the heart of anyone who takes them lightly or mocks them or allegorizes them away or interprets them away or changes their meaning when it suits them.

Jesus said that "heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away". His words will live forever. They have eternal life in them. And any heart with those words of his in them will also live forever and have eternal life. The question is: How does one get those words into their heart so that they will live forever. The answer is to value them above all else, above the words of anyone else, above the words of the magisterium, the Holy Father, yes, and even those of St. Francis of Assisi.